Post by Bob Post by Teresita Post by Bob Post by Teresita Post by duke
The Secretariat for the Liturgy has increasingly received from bishops and
pastors inquiries regarding priests, deacons and the faithful who are unable to
consume consecrated wheat hosts or consecrated wine at Mass.
Why are they unable to consume such things? Because it doesn't change
into the Blood of Christ. I was lied to by the Church. So I quit.
No, you were not lied to by the Church.
A member of the Satanic Roman Catholic cult told you a lie, just like they
tell everybody who joins their cult.
Says the fellow who told the newsgroup that I was Kevin R.
No I didn't. Now you're lying.
Taking something someone else said way out of context.
That's something Kev does all the time.
How about that. What a coincidence.
Bobbo is engaging in his "No True Scotsman" version
of Joshism. Catholics have a tradition of being
The True Church, dating bac to the possibly spurious
appointment of Pope Rocky I, by Josh hisself. The
non-Catholic eastern Orthodox claim that too, and both
branches of the pre-schism church point fingers at each
other, mumbling "schismatic!" and "heresiarch!" under
their breaths as they blow the filioque controversy up
to immense proportions, when we all know it was about
the still solvent, still defensible Eastern empire's
imperator wanting the church headquarters in his backyard,
without any kibitzing by a pope still living in Italy, and
being obligated to protect his holy seat from whatever the
next group to threaten the Papal States. In the 11th century
that would have been the Normans, who defeated an alliance of
Byzantines and local forces loyal to the Pope and the German
("Holy Roman") emperor at Civitate in June 1053 CE.
Long after the E-W schism, Duncan's beloved "reformers"
denounced the Pope and the church hierarchy in favor of
some kind of return to the "primitive church" of the
first couple of hundred years of the movement, though
not every Protestant church shed itself of "Popish"
trappings like ornate sanctuaries, vestments, bishops,
etc. Some even went so far as to downplay the early church's
eschewing of accumulated wealth and embrace of the poor, in
favor of the idea that worldly prosperity was an outward sign
of election by their ghod, denoting the elect who would be
saved! (Following Beza, if not Calvin.)
Millions clung to the Whore of Babylon, though. They think
they are Christians. When I was one of them, I thought so.
I'm neither a "cult member" nor a Christian, now, but I well
remember the self-satisfied jerks on both sides of this cosmic
quibble: the Anglicans in the Protestant Ascendancy and their
Scottish Kirk allies who thought that a Papal bull declared
by the only English pope authorized them to steal Ireland, or
at least what they thought were the best bits from the Irish;
the Ulster Scots who, having had some bad years on their
stolen land, moved to America to become the "Scots-Irish,"
with the additional impulse of continuing in Presbyterianism
when under pressure to conform to Anglicanism; the Calvinist
descendants of the Puritans who were the new England WASP
bluestockings determined to outlaw fun. On the other side,
the ultramontanist "no salvation outside the RCC" Catholics
of the pre-Vatican II mindset (there are still a few around)
who expected grown people to hand the moral car-keys to
church authorities. The history of Protestant anti-Catholicism
in the US, from the actual outlawry of priests in some of the
colonies to the Know-Nothing movement to the KKK and down to
the mistrust of Al Smith and Jack Kennedy when they ran for
President, when Protestants who backed the same policies
would have been unremarkable explains some of the Catholic
"circle the wagons' attitude. But Duncan's theological
forebears really did want immigration by Catholics quashed,
and considered allegiance to Rome tantamount to treason.
This is where Bobbo's "Jack chick tract" level of anti-Catholic
ranting comes from.
I'd say "a plague upon both or all of your houses," myself,
but I don't want to persecute anyone, or hurl anyone into
a lake of fire. I just want the state to be neutral among
religions, and between religion and non-religion. Fire-eaters
like Duncan may choose to run around with bigotry disguised
as theological purity installed in their craniums like malware
on a PC, but, man!, what wasted energy in maintaining oneself
as a little ball of hate!
I don't believe in a ghod, but if a loving one as described by
many sects actually existed, what would it do with these assholes
so committed to the version they have dreamed up for themselves
who supposedly created souls inherently unworthy of being saved,
Both Catholicism and Calvinism are weird. One finds oneself
hoping that, when Great Cthulhu does rise from his slumber, that
he eats the "elect" last. :) *
As for incredulity about transubstantiation leading to
atheism, rather than church-shopping for a sect with
less ridiculous claims, blame the various dogmawallas
who push the "you have to believe all of it" attitude
on people who would otherwise be "Caeteria Catholics"
or selective believers in other faiths. Once doubt
about omething significant pops up, it isn't a far
journey to examine the whole house of cards. For me,
it wasn't any of those "mysteries" of the liturgy or
sacraments, it was the problem of evil, and the inadequacy
I did toy with the idea that there might have been a creator
that was less than omnipotent, and due to his being "underpowered"
made a hash of building his universe. In that case "evil" is a
bug that tech support hasn't got a fix for yet. Occam's razor
sent that theory to the bit-bucket, though it has resonance in
various works of science fiction and fantasy.
Oh, and if he ever existed, Josh didn't die for anybody.
He may have been anointed at some time in his life, but
so have many others, including myself. I'm no "christ,"
or I'm as much of one as he would have been. it's just oil
people. You heat it in a pan and saute food.
* for the benefit of the hard-core TULIP aficionados and
the sedevacantists reading the group, this is a "joke."
I don't ACTUALLY think "the elder ghodz" as described by
H P Lovecraft in his fiction are real entities.