Discussion:
Atheists Always Bitch and Moan
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Jahnu
2017-05-11 21:55:49 UTC
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There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D

Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence. They seem to
forget that their own belief system, abiogenesis - ie. the funny idea
that matter creates life - is completely unfounded, blind belief. Why
don't atheists demand proof of that?

But this is the double-standard one is forced to accept as an atheist.
Stone-hard and cold facts are required to give credibility to the
opposition, but when it comes to one's own beliefs the same demands
are suddenly not required.

Anyhow, atheists always go on and on about scientific proof and
evidence. So then I offer the scientific proof - that if you maintain
an atheistic mentality, you will experience a lot more suffering and
frustration than if you accept to connect with Krishna. That is a test
anyone can perform and verify - Krishna conciousness brings greater
happiness in life and atheism brings greater misery and suffering in
life.

What people in general don't understand is that life in the material
world is basically one of suffering and frustration. It is so, because
Krishna has made it that way. The reason Krishna has designed it that
way, is because if things were perfect in the material world, the
fallen, lost souls would not want to go back to the spiritual world
and enjoy with Krishna. They would want to stay in the material world
and enjoy the body. Actually, this is what most people want, anyway -
stay in the material world and enjoy their senses. Krishna is even so
kind that a soul in the body of a worm in stool, thinks he is
enjoying. Even the souls living under the most hellish conditions
think they are enjoying. Apart from that, there are the heavenly
planets where the demigods enjoy bodily gratification to the max.
Anyone can go there by being pious, following the process devised by
God.

So the human form of life is a chance for the soul to get rid of all
suffering. A clever person will ask the question, why do I suffer? and
try to get rid of it. The human form of life is a chance for the soul
to get rid of all suffering. Atheism bars the human being from this
opportunity. Atheism just conditions the soul to more suffering.

Krishna says: From the highest planet in the material world down to
the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death
take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of KuntI, never
takes birth again. (Bg. 8.16)

Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity;
approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness;
self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification;
absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old
age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children,
wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant
events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a
solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting
the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the
Absolute Truth—all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this
whatever there may be is ignorance. (Bg.13. 8-12)

Note, that the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and
disease is one of the symptoms of knowledge. Most people are
intelligent enough to understand they are suffering. Only animals
don't understand they are suffering. In the human form of life the
soul is given sufficient intelligence by nature to understand he is
suffering. Whether he will admit it here, is another matter.

So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12


Have a look at my art -


- God the Supreme Designer
- Sudder street
- Planet Plant
- Nature



http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
Jeanne Douglas
2017-05-12 05:55:33 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence. They seem to
forget that their own belief system, abiogenesis
What does abiogenesis have to do with atheism?
--
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raven1
2017-05-12 12:42:01 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence.
Imagine that. How dare we demand evidence! We should just believe what
some wrinkled-up toad in a clown robe tells us, like you do, you
gullible twat.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, Jesper?
Christopher A. Lee
2017-05-12 14:52:31 UTC
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On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:42:01 -0400, raven1
Post by raven1
Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence.
Imagine that. How dare we demand evidence! We should just believe what
some wrinkled-up toad in a clown robe tells us, like you do, you
gullible twat.
The proven serial liar knows perfectly well it is all about "put up or
shut up".
Post by raven1
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, Jesper?
He's insane. Normal people don't behave the way he does, to complete
strangers.
Malte Runz
2017-05-12 18:30:02 UTC
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On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:42:01 -0400, raven1
Post by raven1
Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence.
Imagine that. How dare we demand evidence! We should just believe what
some wrinkled-up toad in a clown robe tells us, like you do, you
gullible twat.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, Jesper?
Nothing a kill filter won't fix.
--
Malte Runz
Jahnu
2017-05-13 00:23:49 UTC
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On Fri, 12 May 2017 20:30:02 +0200, Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Nothing a kill filter won't fix.
See, that's the thing - these guys simply love to bitch and moan
non-stop, hehe :)

And I smack them down every time with sheer facts,

Here is what science has to say about the intellectually devolved idea
that the universe popped into existence on its own without intelligent
direction, from a bunch of chemicals, just like that - poof...



"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only
proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful
Being." - Isaac Newton


Have a look at my art -


http://youtu.be/uWw9o4DMHMo - God the Supreme Designer
http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
http://youtu.be/y4F6tkoYZok - Planet Plant
http://youtu.be/e_ejv98XyL8 - Nature



http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
raven1
2017-05-13 02:27:08 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
On Fri, 12 May 2017 20:30:02 +0200, Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Nothing a kill filter won't fix.
See, that's the thing - these guys simply love to bitch and moan
non-stop, hehe :)
And I smack them down every time with sheer facts
Which "facts" are those, asshole? Planetary Constellations? Galileo
burned at the stake for teaching the Earth is round? Steve Jobs and
Bill Gates inventing the computer? Pull the other one, you delusional
idiot.
Jeanne Douglas
2017-05-13 10:43:28 UTC
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Post by raven1
Post by Jahnu
On Fri, 12 May 2017 20:30:02 +0200, Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Nothing a kill filter won't fix.
See, that's the thing - these guys simply love to bitch and moan
non-stop, hehe :)
And I smack them down every time with sheer facts
Which "facts" are those, asshole? Planetary Constellations?
Still my favorite.
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
default
2017-05-12 14:55:11 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
I believe theists don't know the meaning of the word truth - they
invented biblical and religious "truth," as a work-around, just like
Donald Trump has "alternative facts."

religious truth: anything but truthful
alternative facts: anything but factual
Kevrob
2017-05-12 15:47:43 UTC
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Post by default
Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
I believe theists don't know the meaning of the word truth - they
invented biblical and religious "truth," as a work-around, just like
Donald Trump has "alternative facts."
religious truth: anything but truthful
alternative facts: anything but factual
[quote from Jesper]

...their own belief system, abiogenesis - ie. the funny
idea that matter creates life - is completely unfounded

[/quote]

"Create" is a loaded word. It assumes a consciousness behind
an action. I, an atheist, don't consider any part of the natural
world to be "created." Humans create things, out of already
existing stuff, and they come up with ideas, which can be considered
creations. But matter and energy, theorized to be the result of
the Big Bang are not "created" by anybody. That is anthropomorphizing
the universe. It leads to the ultra-stupid "argument," usually
expressed as "How can their be a Creation with no Creator?"
It is just assuming the conclusion as a premise.

Quantum physics tells us that stuff - matter - _does_ "pop into
existence." See this popular explanation of emergent "virtual
particles."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea/

Further, we have no idea what the physical laws were in whatever
version of the universe preceded the Big Bang. Matter and energy
may owe their existence to the forces at play behind that barrier.

Note: I am not a scientist, and especially not a physicist, just
a layman who finds this stuff fascinating. I welcome correction
by those with the proper education to do so accurately.

BTW, one could be an atheist and not agree with the Big Bang, as in
the case of those who plumped for a "steady state" view of cosmology.
Being an atheist does correlate with accepting physical evidence
that has been properly vetted and allowing one's mind to be changed by
new theoretical structures. If abiogenesis is debunked by actual
scientific inquiry, then so be it.

Kevin R
Kurt Nicklas
2017-05-12 16:52:59 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
I believe theists don't know the meaning of the word truth - they
invented biblical and religious "truth," as a work-around, just like
Donald Trump has "alternative facts."
religious truth: anything but truthful
alternative facts: anything but factual
[quote from Jesper]
...their own belief system, abiogenesis - ie. the funny
idea that matter creates life - is completely unfounded
[/quote]
"Create" is a loaded word. It assumes a consciousness behind
an action. I, an atheist, don't consider any part of the natural
world to be "created."
To adapt a famous subjectivist question: If a tree falls in the forest is a sound created?
Post by Kevrob
Humans create things, out of already
existing stuff, and they come up with ideas, which can be considered
creations. But matter and energy, theorized to be the result of
the Big Bang are not "created" by anybody. That is anthropomorphizing
the universe. It leads to the ultra-stupid "argument," usually
expressed as "How can their be a Creation with no Creator?"
It is just assuming the conclusion as a premise.
Quantum physics tells us that stuff - matter - _does_ "pop into
existence." See this popular explanation of emergent "virtual
particles."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea/
Further, we have no idea what the physical laws were in whatever
version of the universe preceded the Big Bang. Matter and energy
may owe their existence to the forces at play behind that barrier.
Note: I am not a scientist, and especially not a physicist, just
a layman who finds this stuff fascinating. I welcome correction
by those with the proper education to do so accurately.
BTW, one could be an atheist and not agree with the Big Bang, as in
the case of those who plumped for a "steady state" view of cosmology.
Being an atheist does correlate with accepting physical evidence
that has been properly vetted and allowing one's mind to be changed by
new theoretical structures. If abiogenesis is debunked by actual
scientific inquiry, then so be it.
Kevin R
Kevrob
2017-05-12 20:47:50 UTC
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Post by Kurt Nicklas
To adapt a famous subjectivist question: If a tree falls in the forest is a sound created?
Vibrations occur. Atmosphere carries them. Sound can be
said to exist in the mind of the hearer.

Kevin R

Sophists `r Us!
Kurt Nicklas
2017-05-13 13:07:41 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Kurt Nicklas
To adapt a famous subjectivist question: If a tree falls in the forest is a sound created?
Vibrations occur.
Haha. That word 'create' has a kind of ominous, threatening connotation for you, doesn't it?

Does the phrase 'Vibrations cause sound' carry the same sort of connotation for you?
Post by Kevrob
Atmosphere carries them. Sound can be
said to exist in the mind of the hearer.
Really? How can sound exist in the mind? Sounds like magic.

What does it mean 'can be said to exist'? Does it or doesn't it? Just curious because I would never use that phrase.

Aside from that, is there ANYTHING that exists outside the mind of perceiver?
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Sophists `r Us!
ernobe
2017-05-12 16:53:35 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.

Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept. And how can anyone be required to avoid sin and suffering
unless he does understand the law? People are ultimately responsible
for their own understanding, and nowhere in the Vedas is it mentioned
that Krishna put people in a sinful state, nor is it mentioned in the
Bible that Adam caused everyone elses' sin. What they do say is that
people have misunderstood Adam or Krishna, and this has been their sin.
So, we have to get our understanding in order, and adhere to sound
principles and laws. How else is anything good or useful to come of it?
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Smiler
2017-05-12 20:39:07 UTC
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Post by ernobe
Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be
experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.
Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept.
Sin is not a law or principle that a rational mind can accept.
--
Smiler,
The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made to
exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
aaa
2017-05-13 02:57:38 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by ernobe
Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be
experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.
Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept.
Sin is not a law or principle that a rational mind can accept.
Sin breaks the law and principle that a rational mind is relying on. The
law and principle is called the truth. Sin is the untruth. When the
rational mind relies on the untruth instead of the truth, the rational
mind sins and becomes irrational.
Lucifer Morningstar
2017-05-13 03:57:50 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by ernobe
Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be
experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.
Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept.
Krishna sounds like a much nicer dude than God.
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Sin is not a law or principle that a rational mind can accept.
Sin breaks the law and principle that a rational mind is relying on. The
law and principle is called the truth. Sin is the untruth. When the
rational mind relies on the untruth instead of the truth, the rational
mind sins and becomes irrational.
Who are you say God should not have made our brain that way?
aaa
2017-05-13 16:57:17 UTC
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Post by Lucifer Morningstar
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by ernobe
Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be
experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.
Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept.
Krishna sounds like a much nicer dude than God.
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Sin is not a law or principle that a rational mind can accept.
Sin breaks the law and principle that a rational mind is relying on. The
law and principle is called the truth. Sin is the untruth. When the
rational mind relies on the untruth instead of the truth, the rational
mind sins and becomes irrational.
Who are you say God should not have made our brain that way?
God did not make our mind to sin. We sinned due to our own ignorance of
God's truth.

Kurt Nicklas
2017-05-13 13:11:14 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by ernobe
Post by Jahnu
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly be
experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
Knowing the difference between good and bad is all good, but thinking
that we are all suffering because of Adams' sin, or because Krishna made
it that way, is a completely useless concept.
Chanting Krishnas' name on a regular basis is all good, but nothing will
come of it unless there is proof that we have avoided sin. This is not
possible if we think everyone else has been put in a sinful state by
Krishna or anyone else. It is not a law or principle that a rational
mind can accept.
Sin is not a law or principle that a rational mind can accept.
Yeah, there are no absolutes, right?

Rational minds construct their own codes of behavior?

Your truth is not necessarily my truth?

Everything is relative?
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-13 11:24:54 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
There is no the truth.
Is that the truth you believe in? :D
Atheists always moan and whine about proof and evidence. They seem to
forget that their own belief system, abiogenesis - ie. the funny idea
that matter creates life - is completely unfounded, blind belief. Why
don't atheists demand proof of that?
But this is the double-standard one is forced to accept as an atheist.
Stone-hard and cold facts are required to give credibility to the
opposition, but when it comes to one's own beliefs the same demands
are suddenly not required.
Anyhow, atheists always go on and on about scientific proof and
evidence. So then I offer the scientific proof - that if you maintain
an atheistic mentality, you will experience a lot more suffering and
frustration than if you accept to connect with Krishna. That is a test
anyone can perform and verify - Krishna conciousness brings greater
happiness in life and atheism brings greater misery and suffering in
life.
What people in general don't understand is that life in the material
world is basically one of suffering and frustration. It is so, because
Krishna has made it that way. The reason Krishna has designed it that
way, is because if things were perfect in the material world, the
fallen, lost souls would not want to go back to the spiritual world
and enjoy with Krishna. They would want to stay in the material world
and enjoy the body. Actually, this is what most people want, anyway -
stay in the material world and enjoy their senses. Krishna is even so
kind that a soul in the body of a worm in stool, thinks he is
enjoying. Even the souls living under the most hellish conditions
think they are enjoying. Apart from that, there are the heavenly
planets where the demigods enjoy bodily gratification to the max.
Anyone can go there by being pious, following the process devised by
God.
So the human form of life is a chance for the soul to get rid of all
suffering. A clever person will ask the question, why do I suffer? and
try to get rid of it. The human form of life is a chance for the soul
to get rid of all suffering. Atheism bars the human being from this
opportunity. Atheism just conditions the soul to more suffering.
Krishna says: From the highest planet in the material world down to
the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death
take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of KuntI, never
takes birth again. (Bg. 8.16)
Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity;
approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness;
self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification;
absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old
age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children,
wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant
events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a
solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting
the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the
Absolute Truth—all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this
whatever there may be is ignorance. (Bg.13. 8-12)
Note, that the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and
disease is one of the symptoms of knowledge. Most people are
intelligent enough to understand they are suffering. Only animals
don't understand they are suffering. In the human form of life the
soul is given sufficient intelligence by nature to understand he is
suffering. Whether he will admit it here, is another matter.
So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas. And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.
O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.
--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12
Have a look at my art -
http://youtu.be/uWw9o4DMHMo - God the Supreme Designer
http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
http://youtu.be/y4F6tkoYZok - Planet Plant
http://youtu.be/e_ejv98XyL8 - Nature
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
Kali could kick Krishna's butt.
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