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Why Do Republicans (Trump Supporters) Hate America?
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AlleyCat
2018-05-28 02:12:50 UTC
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Why Do Republicans Hate America?

Why do Republicans hate America? No, really. It’s not a rhetorical
question. Since consolidating its power in January 2017, the GOP
has systematically set out to dismantle the economic strength of
this nation, coddle predators, shield traitors, attack those who
are working, and strip protections from the most vulnerable. Are
these the actions of a party that loves the nation it has sworn to
serve?

Consider the GOP’s attempts over the last year to blow up the U.S.
economy and make life harder for its constituents. The
Republicans’ first try at demolishing the economy as if it were
nothing but an old abandoned building was their reckless attempt
to destroy the Affordable Care Act, which housed and protected
millions of American citizens. The GOP’s congressional leaders
held no hearings, refused to even listen to expert testimony and
were utterly unconcerned about the impact that dismantling a key
component of the nation’s health care system would have on one-
sixth of the American economy.

When the button jammed on that detonator, Republicans tried
another, more powerful type of explosive, and this one threatens
to be much more successful. In December, they passed a tax bill
that adds an estimated $1.5 trillion to the deficit — with no
significant investment in infrastructure, education or health care
to show for it. And now, as House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) made
clear, when the GOP-fueled deficit balloons, they’re coming after
the retirement and medical social programs that he has demeaned
and mislabeled as “entitlements.” Medicare, Social Security and
Medicaid, however, are hard-earned benefits funded, in large part,
out of our paychecks. They provide much needed support to the
elderly, the infirmed and those with disabilities.

For America’s senior population alone, the Republicans’ assault on
the safety net is going to be destabilizing and, in many cases,
lethal. Currently, 9 out of 10 Americans over 65 receive Social
Security. Forty-nine million are on Medicare, estimated to
increase to 64 million by 2020. Nearly one-third will require
nursing home care, which costs three times the annual income of
those over 65. Imagine what an aging America will look like just a
few years into the future with no Social Security, no Medicare and
no Medicaid.

Not satisfied with their own multi-pronged attack on the social
fabric and safety net of the nation they claim to love, the
Republicans have also let a foreign government attack the United
States. Instead of repelling the invaders, strengthening our
defenses and ferreting out the collaborators, the GOP has acted
more like a fifth column shielding the saboteurs. In the fall of
2016, when confronted with the reports from 17 agencies in the
intelligence community about Russian interference in the 2016
election, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)
threatened then-President Barack Obama with partisan nuclear
destruction and left the nation vulnerable to Russian leader
Vladimir Putin’s machinations. In March 2017, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-
Calif.) sabotaged his own committee’s investigation into Russian
interference, and for that unconscionable act, Ryan rewarded him
by threatening to allow contempt of Congress proceedings against
the Department of Justice unless Nunes could review the FBI files
on the case. In January 2018, Sens. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and
Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) sent a letter to the DOJ demanding an
investigation of former U.K. intelligence officer Christopher
Steele, who was so alarmed by what he was uncovering that he
alerted the FBI that the Russians had cultivated a Trojan Horse in
the form of Donald Trump. ”This was a national security issue,”
Steele said. For having more concern about the United States than
the Americans involved had shown, the Republicans tried to sic the
FBI on him.

Consider the myriad other ways that the Republicans have
demonstrated their destructive contempt for America. They removed
protections for students against predatory lenders and financially
hobbled the capacity of the next generation of leaders to actually
engage in anything but mere survival. In August 2017, they sheared
off millions of acres from public parks and seem ready to sell
them to the highest bidder.

They have rushed through nominees for lifetime appointments on the
federal bench who are demonstrably unqualified and would warp and
mangle what has been the rule of law in this nation for decades.
They have lied to the American people about so-called rampant
voter fraud so that they could deny millions of citizens the
constitutional right to vote. And they have tried to undercut the
development and use of renewable energy, require power plants to
use only coal or nuclear fuel, and opened up once-banned offshore
drilling, which has now sent coastal states into a panic about the
ever-looming threat to their very lives this decision has posed.

The Republicans have also lit a short fuse under America’s “soft
power” ? our ideas, aspirations and strivings ? that makes the
nation a world leader and not just any other one in the
constellation. It only took a year under the GOP’s stranglehold
for the global respect in which the U.S. was held to plummet from
No. 1 to No. 6 in a global reputation survey. Within that short
space of time, the Republicans have abdicated America’s
international leadership on climate change; targeted, harassed,
banned and deported immigrants of color with reckless abandon; and
removed human rights and democracy as a goals of U.S. foreign
policy.

Some Republicans, of course, have stood up every now and then to
defuse these time bombs, to try to “put country over party.” Ohio
Gov. John Kasich (R) has been steadfast in his opposition to Trump
and has challenged the White House’s ill-advised policies on
immigration. Kasich, however, is also the governor of a state that
has mastered the art of voter suppression from literacy tests, to
artificially created long lines at the polls in counties with
sizable minority populations, to voter roll purges that have
removed twice as many African-American as white voters. Sens. John
McCain (R-Ariz.), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) and Susan Collins (R-
Maine) helped torpedo the initial attempt to destroy the ACA. But
all three voted for a tax bill that transfers inordinate wealth to
the 1 percent, raises the burdens on the middle and working
classes and saddles the nation with a deficit that dims the
future. Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) has warned of impending doom,
but his rhetoric of resistance has little correlation to his
actions. Instead of holding the line, he has voted to destroy the
ACA, twist the tax code to benefit the uber-wealthy and scuttle
the nation’s environmental protections.

The Republicans wear their patriotism and love of country like a
badge of honor, but they have demonstrated neither. Instead, they
have been contemptuous and complicit. They seem determined to
recreate the civil rights and deregulated financial sector
wilderness of the 1920s; a world where millions of American
citizens could not vote, where women were separate and unequal and
where Wall Street gambled so recklessly that the global economy
imploded and ushered in more than a decade of double-digit
unemployment and the Great Depression. That desire to strip us
bare once again has revealed a deep, unrelenting disdain for this
nation ? for its people, its hopes, its ideas, its lands and its
institutions. Their lies about love of country put them in power.
Their hatred ? if we recognize it for what it is ? will put them
out.

Carol Anderson is a historian and a professor of African-American
Studies at Emory University. She is the author of White Rage: The
Unspoken Truth Of Our Racial Divide and the forthcoming One
Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression is Destroying Our
Democracy.




https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-anderson-republicans-
america_us_5a58d5efe4b04df054f860a1
Malcolm McMahon
2018-05-28 09:03:21 UTC
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Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.

Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
trotsky
2018-05-28 19:19:32 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.
Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
That's a nice explanation, but not really true. The racism and
xenophobia was very really, and harkens back to both the Civil War, and
then later to the Civil Rights movement such as when John Lewis was
getting his head caved in in Selma, Alabama. Your explanation sugar
coats the ugliness and abject hatred of the whole thing.


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Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-01 15:04:32 UTC
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Post by trotsky
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.
Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
That's a nice explanation, but not really true. The racism and
xenophobia was very really, and harkens back to both the Civil War, and
then later to the Civil Rights movement such as when John Lewis was
getting his head caved in in Selma, Alabama. Your explanation sugar
coats the ugliness and abject hatred of the whole thing.
The past _was_ that ugly.
Kevrob
2018-06-01 15:57:35 UTC
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Post by trotsky
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.
Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
That's a nice explanation, but not really true. The racism and
xenophobia was very really, and harkens back to both the Civil War, and
then later to the Civil Rights movement such as when John Lewis was
getting his head caved in in Selma, Alabama. Your explanation sugar
coats the ugliness and abject hatred of the whole thing.
....and that's when John Lewis was heavily influenced by the Communists,
who had cynically latched onto* the civil rights movement. The Commies
wanted every American to be equal: equally subservient to a Soviet-
style state.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Party_USA_and_African_Americans

Kevin R

* Any individual communist or fellow traveler could have been
completely sincere about their commitment to civil rights, the
poor, dear dupes!
Ron Dean
2018-06-08 17:48:43 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist
historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.
Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
That's a nice explanation, but not really true.  The racism and
xenophobia was very really, and harkens back to both the Civil War, and
then later to the Civil Rights movement such as when John Lewis was
getting his head caved in in Selma, Alabama.  Your explanation sugar
coats the ugliness and abject hatred of the whole thing.
Of course, but as I recall it wasn't the GOP that was engaged in
this, except in the case of revised history. Furthermore, it wasn't
the GOP that owned slaves. It wasn't the GOP that created Jim Crow
laws. But don't misunderstand, I don't like the GOP, and didn't
vote for either Trump or Hillary. I voted 3 party as an independant.
Hannity is an example of the GOP. A day or two he advised the
witnesses in the Russia to destroy evidence. This is what you can
expect from Fox News.
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Kevrob
2018-06-08 22:08:35 UTC
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Post by Ron Dean
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future. It's that
imaginary past that Trump tapped into. The Time When America Was Great. A time
which he avoids dating, because it doesn't actually exist
historically, it's
kind of a "dream time" epoch.
Functionally The Time When America Was Great is the time when the hearer was
young and hopeful.
That's a nice explanation, but not really true.  The racism and
xenophobia was very really, and harkens back to both the Civil War, and
then later to the Civil Rights movement such as when John Lewis was
getting his head caved in in Selma, Alabama.  Your explanation sugar
coats the ugliness and abject hatred of the whole thing.
Of course, but as I recall it wasn't the GOP that was engaged in
this, except in the case of revised history. Furthermore, it wasn't
the GOP that owned slaves. It wasn't the GOP that created Jim Crow
laws.
What did happen was that, having lost their death-grip on political power
in the South, the Dixiecrats began migrating into the GOP. They were
supposed to have reformed, and some did, but there was always a certain
chumminess with The Old Cause that made supporting the Thurmonds and
Helms of the Southron Republicans morally dubious.

Mind you, plenty of Old Democrats stayed in the Party of Jefferson
and Jackson (both slaveowners....): Stennis and Byrd, for example.
Post by Ron Dean
But don't misunderstand, I don't like the GOP, and didn't
vote for either Trump or Hillary. I voted 3 party as an independant.
I haven't voted for a GOP candidate in a partisan election since
Jerry Ford lost.
Post by Ron Dean
Hannity is an example of the GOP. A day or two he advised the
witnesses in the Russia to destroy evidence. This is what you can
expect from Fox News.
Hannity has never been anything but a cut-down version of Limbaugh:
more hair, a slimmer profile and without Rush's pre-political skills
as a "drive time DJ" type entertainer. I'm well over RHLIII, but I
used to find him amusing, before his tropes grew stale and he lost
most of his hearing, possibly through his hypocritical drug use.
(I'm no drug warrior. I just loathe DWs who turn out to be users.)

Kevin R
duke
2018-06-01 19:22:13 UTC
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On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-03 10:05:04 UTC
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Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.

When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.

So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
Don Kresch
2018-06-03 12:20:08 UTC
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
Which means SJW's aren't "liberals", since they can't stand
anyone disagreeing with them, and they refuse to include anyone who
disagree with them and any idea with which they disagree.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
Kevrob
2018-06-03 13:56:06 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
19th century "classical liberals' valued trade, even being Free Traders.
US-style libertarians, being their intellectual successors, still do.

Social democrats and Us-style "progressives" are often anti-trade,
or claim to be "Fair Traders." They put caveats on trade: it can't
be "unfair" by some faux-standard, "faux" because it changes constantly.
The labor unions, usually lumped into the "liberal coalition" here in
the USA, were reliable free traders until the stagflation of the 1970s
and the rise of lower cost manufacturing in Asia. Trump, a phony
"free marketer," has swallowed this anti-market hooey.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community.
Are they pro-prosperity? A lot of the progressive crowd care very
much about reducing carbon footprints, "sustainability," etc.
In policy terms, this often translates into: "First World people
should stop consuming so much."

As an "authentic liberal"/libertarian, I do support an international
community, especially the freedom of folks to travel where they will,
trade with whom they will, and communicate with whom they will. I'm
less enthusiastic about international organizations and agreements
where the majority of participants and signatories are states with
little or no respect for individual's human rights, who want to use
the international structures and fora to buttress their control over
their citizenry, or, more accurately, their subjects. Still, "better
to jaw-jaw than to war-war," as Churchill was quoted as saying.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Stuff like that.
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
Hear, hear.

Kevin R
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-03 16:07:17 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
19th century "classical liberals' valued trade, even being Free Traders.
US-style libertarians, being their intellectual successors, still do.
Social democrats and Us-style "progressives" are often anti-trade,
or claim to be "Fair Traders."
There's a lot of deliberately manufactured confusion in the US betwen
socialists and liberals, two very different philisophies.
Post by Kevrob
They put caveats on trade: it can't
be "unfair" by some faux-standard, "faux" because it changes constantly.
The labor unions, usually lumped into the "liberal coalition" here in
the USA, were reliable free traders until the stagflation of the 1970s
and the rise of lower cost manufacturing in Asia. Trump, a phony
"free marketer," has swallowed this anti-market hooey.
Trumps' manifesto is largely socialist.
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community.
Are they pro-prosperity? A lot of the progressive crowd care very
much about reducing carbon footprints, "sustainability," etc.
Polution, to put it in terms a liberarian ought to understand, is theft. Its
forcing other people to accept material of negative value. When you calculate
the production costs the cost to other people of polution should be included.
It would be clearly cheaper to manufacture anything if you could just steel the
raw materials and make slaves of the work force. That doesn't make that "free
trade". Those Islands threatened with destruction by rising sea levels are not
"free" in this.
Post by Kevrob
In policy terms, this often translates into: "First World people
should stop consuming so much."
Now the naturral world has a limited capacity to absorb polutants, and for that
matter to supply raw materials. The question is, how are those resources to be
allocated. Historical precedent? Might is right? Nature has no owner you can
pay. Perhaps it should have. In the meantime tricks like emistions trading are
a substitute for putting the natural world on the market.
Post by Kevrob
As an "authentic liberal"/libertarian, I do support an international
community, especially the freedom of folks to travel where they will,
trade with whom they will, and communicate with whom they will. I'm
less enthusiastic about international organizations and agreements
where the majority of participants and signatories are states with
little or no respect for individual's human rights, who want to use
the international structures and fora to buttress their control over
their citizenry, or, more accurately, their subjects. Still, "better
to jaw-jaw than to war-war," as Churchill was quoted as saying.
Its more important to negotiate with enemies than with friends, but I agree the
UN, in particular, can look pretty perverse. For example Cuba as the head of
the "non-aligned" members group had a certain irony.

But, as things are, nations are more like a pack of wolves than a human
community. While that's true there's little substitute for war as a dispute
resolution mechanism, as in the wolf-pack..
duke
2018-06-03 16:35:38 UTC
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s worse
than ever before
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-03 21:16:00 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s worse
than ever before
You seriously imagine that this hidden slavery didn't exist while the more
overt forms were rampant? In fact up the the start of the 20th century married
women had no independant legal status.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.
Pure fantasy. None of the serious players are even interested in Hilary any
more.
duke
2018-06-04 20:19:43 UTC
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On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s worse
than ever before
You seriously imagine that this hidden slavery didn't exist while the more
overt forms were rampant? In fact up the the start of the 20th century married
women had no independant legal status.
They were not slaves.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.
Pure fantasy. None of the serious players are even interested in Hilary any
more.
They're out of steam on President Trump now. The worm is turning. The 'rats
will have to step up and be judged.

'Ratbama just said "maybe the country wasn't ready for what I brought". No, WE
didn't want the crap you brought.


the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-05 09:11:43 UTC
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Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
They are supra-national organisations. "Democracy" at that level means that the
countries get a vote. In the case of the WTO, for example, decisions require
inputs from all the big players, which is why the US has been able to cripple
the process simply by refusing to supply delegates. In the WTO the strength of
a countries influence is proportional to the amount of international trade than
country performs.

These organisations aren't in the least "socialist".
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s worse
than ever before
You seriously imagine that this hidden slavery didn't exist while the more
overt forms were rampant? In fact up the the start of the 20th century married
women had no independant legal status.
They were not slaves.
A matter of degree, but many people where in the position that equates to what
is called "modern slavery".
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.
Pure fantasy. None of the serious players are even interested in Hilary any
more.
They're out of steam on President Trump now. The worm is turning. The 'rats
will have to step up and be judged.
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs, for all the
bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
duke
2018-06-05 21:32:38 UTC
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 09:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love. Conservatives find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an imagined future.
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
They are supra-national organisations. "Democracy" at that level means that the
countries get a vote.
Then they should pay.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
In the case of the WTO, for example, decisions require
inputs from all the big players, which is why the US has been able to cripple
the process simply by refusing to supply delegates. In the WTO the strength of
a countries influence is proportional to the amount of international trade than
country performs.
These organisations aren't in the least "socialist".
As long as everybody pays equal to what they get, I guess not.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s
worse than ever before
You seriously imagine that this hidden slavery didn't exist while the more
overt forms were rampant? In fact up the the start of the 20th century married
women had no independant legal status.
They were not slaves.
A matter of degree, but many people where in the position that equates to what
is called "modern slavery".
They were not slaves.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable trends continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like Trump and Putin.
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.
Pure fantasy. None of the serious players are even interested in Hilary any
more.
They're out of steam on President Trump now. The worm is turning. The 'rats
will have to step up and be judged.
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs, for all the
bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
It's breaking the law that is the issue.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
TT Liams
2018-06-05 22:06:10 UTC
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Post by duke
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 09:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 28 May 2018 09:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by AlleyCat
Why Do Republicans Hate America?
Because the "America" they love isn't the one you love.
Conservatives
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
find
their utopia in an imagined past. Progressives in an
imagined future.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international
community.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to
obstruct the
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
They are supra-national organisations. "Democracy" at that level means that the
countries get a vote.
Then they should pay.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
In the case of the WTO, for example, decisions require
inputs from all the big players, which is why the US has been able to cripple
the process simply by refusing to supply delegates. In the WTO the strength of
a countries influence is proportional to the amount of
international trade than
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
country performs.
These organisations aren't in the least "socialist".
As long as everybody pays equal to what they get, I guess not.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is getting to be a better
place. There's less violence. There's less poverty. There's even a lower
birthrate. And much of this improvement is down to the spread of genuine
liberal values and internationallism plus the waning power of religion.
There Are More Slaves Today Than Ever Before In Human History
You may have assumed that slavery was a thing of the past. But sadly, it’s
worse than ever before
You seriously imagine that this hidden slavery didn't exist
while the more
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
overt forms were rampant? In fact up the the start of the 20th
century
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
married
women had no independant legal status.
They were not slaves.
A matter of degree, but many people where in the position that equates to what
is called "modern slavery".
They were not slaves.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable
trends
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
Post by Malcolm McMahon
continue
and don't get buggered up by egotisitical strong men like
Trump and Putin.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
'ratbama is gone and crooked hillary is going to jail.
Pure fantasy. None of the serious players are even interested in Hilary any
more.
They're out of steam on President Trump now. The worm is
turning. The 'rats
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
will have to step up and be judged.
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs, for all the
bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
duke
2018-06-06 16:47:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs, for
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
TT Liams
2018-06-06 21:16:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs, for
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
%
2018-06-06 21:18:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the >election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
no its not , bum hum
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-07 08:39:12 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-07 10:50:26 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
Another Zacky-ism.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
And another.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted
the collusion.
Zacky isn't interested in discussion - he's just trying to annoy. Just
killfile his latest nym.
duke
2018-06-07 12:21:36 UTC
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Peter Pan
2018-06-08 10:51:51 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.

Oh, but pure cornpone still has a deep spiritual message!
duke
2018-06-08 18:26:02 UTC
Reply
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.
Nope. God acted, and thus the written records by man is called Genesis by name.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Peter Pan
2018-06-08 19:12:19 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.
Nope. God acted, and thus the written records by man is called Genesis by name.
Oh? So you've changed your mind about God "creating"
Genesis. You admit there's nothing special about it,
it's just as bogus as any ancient mythology.

Thanks for seeing the light. I feel the FSM approves too.
duke
2018-06-09 15:29:19 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.
Nope. God acted, and thus the written records by man is called Genesis by name.
Oh? So you've changed your mind about God "creating"
Genesis.
Nope. You're just horribly confused.


the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Peter Pan
2018-06-09 16:53:46 UTC
Reply
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Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.
Nope. God acted, and thus the written records by man is called Genesis by name.
Oh? So you've changed your mind about God "creating"
Genesis. You admit there's nothing special about it,
it's just as bogus as any ancient mythology.
Thanks for seeing the light. I feel the FSM approves too.
Nope. You're just horribly confused.
You can't remember what you said yesterday, and you think
i'm confused?

Probably your dementia acting up again.
TT Liams
2018-06-09 19:29:05 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 01:39:12 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 11:47:26 -0500, duke
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of
evidence.
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
Not very well defined in a case like this. But it's good
Duke tactically admitted the collusion.
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Haahaahaa. I didn't even spiritually admit that.
You also tactically (and not so tacitly) admitted God
"created" the fictitious stories in Genisis.
Nope. God acted, and thus the written records by man is
called Genesis by name.
Post by Peter Pan
Post by duke
Post by Peter Pan
Oh? So you've changed your mind about God "creating"
Genesis. You admit there's nothing special about it,
it's just as bogus as any ancient mythology.
Thanks for seeing the light. I feel the FSM approves too.
Nope. You're just horribly confused.
You can't remember what you said yesterday, and you think
i'm confused?
LOLOLOLOL!!!
Post by Peter Pan
Probably your dementia acting up again.
Earl don't got no dementia, he's just a stupid rumdum lol.
duke
2018-06-07 12:20:45 UTC
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 17:16:33 -0400, TT Liams
Post by TT Liams
Post by duke
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 18:06:10 -0400, TT Liams
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No they won't. Hillary is out of the picture, and the Repubs,
for
Post by duke
all the bluster, won't dare make it a trial of evidence.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
It's breaking the law that is the issue.
Trump broke the law when he colluded with Russia to steel the
election!
No, he didn't.
Yes he did cause treason's against the law, rumdum.
What treasons? Are you saying there's be no problem is the didn't try to
"steel" the election.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-05 10:01:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-05 15:11:13 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
--
"Socialist" in America now means "anything that Repulicans disapprove of."
TT Liams
2018-06-05 15:25:36 UTC
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 15:11:13 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by kensi
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to
obstruct the
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
--
"Socialist" in America now means "anything that Repulicans
disapprove of."

Which mean's anything that help's poor & working class ppl cause
Republican's just care about there rich friend's
Rick Johnson
2018-06-10 14:30:42 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
"Socialist" in America now means "anything that Repulicans
disapprove of."
Republican, in American, now means: "Anything that is _not_
Democrat"

And the binary system goose-steps its way down the street,
bulldozing everything in its path. Including democracy. :-(

When will we wake up?
duke
2018-06-05 21:34:53 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
The World Trade Organization — the WTO — is the international organization whose
primary purpose is to open trade for the benefit of all.

Many nations are "getters only".

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-06 10:59:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kensi
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
The World Trade Organization — the WTO — is the international organization whose
primary purpose is to open trade for the benefit of all.
Yep. Trade, as in capitalism, as in NOT SOCIALISM, yakOok.
Many nations are "getters only".
Doesn't compute. A nation can be running a trade surplus, in which case
it's in-net exchanging objects of value for dollars or other currency; a
trade deficit, in which case it's exchanging dollars for objects of
value; or neither, in which case it's effectively exchanging objects for
other objects (or nothing for nothing).

None of those are "getters only", since they're giving either money or
objects (except the totally isolated "nothing for nothing" ones, which
may be giving nothing but are also *getting* nothing, and which so far
as I am aware do not exist anymore anyway).
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-06 16:48:21 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 21:16:00 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And yet, Republicans have, for example, done their best to obstruct the
functioning of the WTO, and the ICC.
They are socialist organizations in nature - not democracies.
The WTO? Socialist? Are you on crack?
The World Trade Organization — the WTO — is the international organization whose
primary purpose is to open trade for the benefit of all.
Yep. Trade, as in capitalism, as in NOT SOCIALISM, yakOok.
It is if some get a free ride.
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Many nations are "getters only".
Doesn't compute. A nation can be running a trade surplus, in which case
it's in-net exchanging objects of value for dollars or other currency; a
trade deficit, in which case it's exchanging dollars for objects of
value; or neither, in which case it's effectively exchanging objects for
other objects (or nothing for nothing).
You eat, you pay.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-07 09:40:54 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by kensi
The World Trade Organization — the WTO — is the international organization whose
primary purpose is to open trade for the benefit of all.
Yep. Trade, as in capitalism, as in NOT SOCIALISM, yakOok.
It is if some get a free ride.
Who is getting a "free ride" in connection with the WTO, kook? Aside
from corporations and the very rich, that is.
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Doesn't compute. A nation can be running a trade surplus, in which case
it's in-net exchanging objects of value for dollars or other currency; a
trade deficit, in which case it's exchanging dollars for objects of
value; or neither, in which case it's effectively exchanging objects for
other objects (or nothing for nothing).
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-07 12:22:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
The World Trade Organization — the WTO — is the international organization whose
primary purpose is to open trade for the benefit of all.
Yep. Trade, as in capitalism, as in NOT SOCIALISM, yakOok.
It is if some get a free ride.
Who is getting a "free ride" in connection with the WTO, kook? Aside
from corporations and the very rich, that is.
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Doesn't compute. A nation can be running a trade surplus, in which case
it's in-net exchanging objects of value for dollars or other currency; a
trade deficit, in which case it's exchanging dollars for objects of
value; or neither, in which case it's effectively exchanging objects for
other objects (or nothing for nothing).
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-07 12:51:35 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-08 18:29:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of Commerce, said:
“The global business community’s position on trade is unambiguous. Far from
being a zero-sum game where some countries take advantage of others, rules-based
trade has lifted incomes and created jobs around the world. Today we risk
returning to a pre-WTO system where might equals right – jeopardizing the future
economic security of billions of people.”

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-09 10:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
“The global business community’s position on trade is unambiguous. Far from
being a zero-sum game where some countries take advantage of others, rules-based
trade has lifted incomes and created jobs around the world. Today we risk
returning to a pre-WTO system where might equals right – jeopardizing the future
economic security of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-09 15:33:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
“The global business community’s position on trade is unambiguous. Far from
being a zero-sum game where some countries take advantage of others, rules-based
trade has lifted incomes and created jobs around the world. Today we risk
returning to a pre-WTO system where might equals right – jeopardizing the future
economic security of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on Tariffs and
Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22 other countries in
1948 that was intended to promote trade by eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125
countries had joined the GATT, and they decided to upgrade their arrangements by
creating the WTO, an international organization that would have a greater
authority and a more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its
members.

Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations, rooted
in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing trade.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Nadegda
2018-06-09 21:04:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:43:25 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 08:51:35 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:40:54 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of
Commerce, said: “The global business community’s position on trade is
unambiguous. Far from being a zero-sum game where some countries take
advantage of others, rules-based trade has lifted incomes and created
jobs around the world. Today we risk returning to a pre-WTO system
where might equals right – jeopardizing the future economic security
of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on
Tariffs and Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22
other countries in 1948 that was intended to promote trade by
eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125 countries had joined the GATT, and
they decided to upgrade their arrangements by creating the WTO, an
international organization that would have a greater authority and a
more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its members.
Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations,
rooted in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing
trade.
Hey kooktard, you didn't say "getters more", you said "getters ONLY" and
kensi challenged you on that. Nice try at moving the goalposts though.
the dukester, American-American
What the fuck is an "American-American"?
--
FNVWe Nadegda

Fakey couldn't teach a monkey to eat a banana, much less answer a direct
question posed to him. -- Fakey's Dogwhistle Holder
%
2018-06-09 21:06:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nadegda
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:43:25 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 08:51:35 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:40:54 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of
Commerce, said: “The global business community’s position on trade is
unambiguous. Far from being a zero-sum game where some countries take
advantage of others, rules-based trade has lifted incomes and created
jobs around the world. Today we risk returning to a pre-WTO system
where might equals right – jeopardizing the future economic security
of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on
Tariffs and Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22
other countries in 1948 that was intended to promote trade by
eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125 countries had joined the GATT, and
they decided to upgrade their arrangements by creating the WTO, an
international organization that would have a greater authority and a
more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its members.
Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations,
rooted in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing
trade.
Hey kooktard, you didn't say "getters more", you said "getters ONLY" and
kensi challenged you on that. Nice try at moving the goalposts though.
the dukester, American-American
What the fuck is an "American-American"?
a person from america
Street
2018-06-09 23:51:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by %
Post by Nadegda
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
Post by duke
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:43:25 -0400, kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 08:51:35 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:40:54 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of
Commerce, said: “The global business community’s position on trade is
unambiguous. Far from being a zero-sum game where some countries take
advantage of others, rules-based trade has lifted incomes and created
jobs around the world. Today we risk returning to a pre-WTO system
where might equals right – jeopardizing the future economic security
of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on
Tariffs and Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22
other countries in 1948 that was intended to promote trade by
eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125 countries had joined the GATT, and
they decided to upgrade their arrangements by creating the WTO, an
international organization that would have a greater authority and a
more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its members.
Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations,
rooted in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing
trade.
Hey kooktard, you didn't say "getters more", you said "getters ONLY" and
kensi challenged you on that. Nice try at moving the goalposts though.
Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
What the fuck is an "American-American"?
a person from america
Or it's a person who somehow emigrated to America from America. Except in
Duke's case, it means "idiot".
benj
2018-06-09 21:46:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nadegda
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:43:25 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 08:51:35 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:40:54 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of
Commerce, said: “The global business community’s position on trade is
unambiguous. Far from being a zero-sum game where some countries take
advantage of others, rules-based trade has lifted incomes and created
jobs around the world. Today we risk returning to a pre-WTO system
where might equals right – jeopardizing the future economic security
of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on
Tariffs and Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22
other countries in 1948 that was intended to promote trade by
eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125 countries had joined the GATT, and
they decided to upgrade their arrangements by creating the WTO, an
international organization that would have a greater authority and a
more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its members.
Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations,
rooted in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing
trade.
Hey kooktard, you didn't say "getters more", you said "getters ONLY" and
kensi challenged you on that. Nice try at moving the goalposts though.
the dukester, American-American
What the fuck is an "American-American"?
That is the kind who have read the constitution and love it's ideas of
rights and freedom. You don't even have to be born here, but you can't
just walk looking for a better life.

The other kind are commie-American nutjobs like you and "kensi" who have
never read the constitution, are in love the idea of an all-powerful
government whose word is LAW, and HAVE read Marx and even though his
system has been thoroughly discredited, somehow you had the thought:
"You know this stupid idea could really work if on "I" were in charge!"

Lefty Kookers

Snicker (rule #5)
Street
2018-06-09 23:51:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by benj
Post by Nadegda
Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes, melt!
Post by duke
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:43:25 -0400, kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 08:51:35 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:40:54 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
You eat, you pay.
And that has what to do with what I wrote, ko0ky?
You eat, you pay.
So, what you're saying is you have no counterargument to what I've said,
but you're not willing to come right out and say so. Gotcha.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of
Commerce, said: “The global business community’s position on trade is
unambiguous. Far from being a zero-sum game where some countries take
advantage of others, rules-based trade has lifted incomes and created
jobs around the world. Today we risk returning to a pre-WTO system
where might equals right – jeopardizing the future economic security
of billions of people.”
Thank you for making my point for me: that there are no nations who are,
in some WTO-connected sense, "getters only".
Almost from its start, the World Trade Organization (WTO) has been
controversial. The WTO has its origins in the General Agreement on
Tariffs and Trade (GATT), a treaty signed by the United States and 22
other countries in 1948 that was intended to promote trade by
eliminating tariffs. By 1994, 125 countries had joined the GATT, and
they decided to upgrade their arrangements by creating the WTO, an
international organization that would have a greater authority and a
more efficient mechanism to adjudicate trade disputes among its members.
Divisions soon arose, however, between developed and developing nations,
rooted in questions about which group benefited more from liberalizing
trade.
Hey kooktard, you didn't say "getters more", you said "getters ONLY" and
kensi challenged you on that. Nice try at moving the goalposts though.
Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
What the fuck is an "American-American"?
That is the kind who have read the constitution and love it's ideas of
rights and freedom. You don't even have to be born here, but you can't
just walk looking for a better life.
The other kind are commie-American nutjobs like you and "kensi" who have
never read the constitution, are in love the idea of an all-powerful
government whose word is LAW, and HAVE read Marx and even though his
"You know this stupid idea could really work if on "I" were in charge!"
Lefty Kookers
Snicker (rule #5)
I doubt they read anything Marx actually wrote himself.
kensi
2018-06-10 09:13:32 UTC
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Post by Street
Post by benj
Lefty Kookers
Snicker (rule #5)
I doubt they read anything Marx actually wrote himself.
/Capital/ (all three volumes; often known by its original German name,
/Das Kapital/), /A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy/,
/Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right/, /Theories of Surplus Value/,
/Value, Price, and Profit/, and /Wage Labor and Capital/.

I've also skimmed his notebooks on the history of technology.

Of course, I don't take everything he wrote as gospel. Marx was a
product of his times, and some of what he wrote is at least borderline
antiSemitic. I certainly don't hold truck with that. Critical thinking
is an essential life skill for sorting the wheat from the chaff in such
situations, and it is lamentably underdeveloped in most of my fellow
citizens.

On the other hand, one thing he was certainly correct about was this:
Capitalism, at least as we have known it, is doomed.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-10 12:21:47 UTC
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 05:13:32 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Street
Post by benj
Lefty Kookers
Snicker (rule #5)
I doubt they read anything Marx actually wrote himself.
/Capital/ (all three volumes; often known by its original German name,
/Das Kapital/), /A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy/,
/Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right/, /Theories of Surplus Value/,
/Value, Price, and Profit/, and /Wage Labor and Capital/.
I've also skimmed his notebooks on the history of technology.
Of course, I don't take everything he wrote as gospel. Marx was a
product of his times, and some of what he wrote is at least borderline
antiSemitic. I certainly don't hold truck with that. Critical thinking
is an essential life skill for sorting the wheat from the chaff in such
situations, and it is lamentably underdeveloped in most of my fellow
citizens.
Capitalism, at least as we have known it, is doomed.
We haven't known capitalism. What we have known is a mixture
of mercantilism, cronyism, and welfare-warefare state fascist
socialism.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-10 13:49:40 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 05:13:32 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Capitalism, at least as we have known it, is doomed.
We haven't known capitalism.
Eee hee hee! KoOk Kresch is *completely* out to lunch.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
kensi
2018-06-04 09:29:42 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-04 20:20:49 UTC
Reply
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Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-05 10:02:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by duke
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-05 12:33:00 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-05 20:06:31 UTC
Reply
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Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Don Kresch
2018-06-05 22:18:08 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 20:06:31 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Freedom and liberty are different things, though.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
Scout
2018-06-05 22:40:09 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International
trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international
community.
Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Yes, and once the existence of the civilization is no longer about
protecting individual rights, then it is tyrannical and oppressive.
%
2018-06-05 22:52:56 UTC
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Post by Scout
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International
trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international
community.
Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Yes, and once the existence of the civilization is no longer about
protecting individual rights, then it is tyrannical and oppressive.
don't participate in such things
Scout
2018-06-06 03:16:48 UTC
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Post by %
Post by Scout
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International
trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international
community.
Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Yes, and once the existence of the civilization is no longer about
protecting individual rights, then it is tyrannical and oppressive.
don't participate in such things
So don't participate in civilizations?
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-06 15:18:59 UTC
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Post by Scout
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Don Kresch
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:02:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 05:29:42 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International
trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international
community.
Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
The very existence of civilisation is essentially one big intrusion into human
freedom.
Yes, and once the existence of the civilization is no longer about
protecting individual rights, then it is tyrannical and oppressive.
It's a matter of degree. All civilisations are somewhat tyrannical and oppressive, because they have to control messy human impulses.

So, for instance, to obviate the Hobbsian "war of each against each" we require a state to act as Leviathan.

Humans are a domesticated species.

Rights have no natural existence, they are part of the contract between rulers and ruled.
kensi
2018-06-06 11:02:17 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

Or perhaps you're one of those "libertarian" ko0ks who considers
property ownership the sole human right, calls taxation "theft", and
couldn't care less whether people are guaranteed to be clothed and fed ...
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
trotsky
2018-06-06 12:01:23 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
    You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
And yet the suicide rates for both Sweden and Finland are higher than
the U.S. That's just weird.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-06 14:20:24 UTC
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Post by trotsky
Post by kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
    You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
And yet the suicide rates for both Sweden and Finland are higher than
the U.S. That's just weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
It's the Arctic Circle thing.
Olrik
2018-06-07 04:25:59 UTC
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Post by trotsky
Post by kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
    You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
And yet the suicide rates for both Sweden and Finland are higher than
the U.S.  That's just weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
That paradox has been addressed quite a few times.

<http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/25/why-the-happiest-states-have-the-highest-suicide-rates/>
--
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
Don Kresch
2018-06-06 12:34:15 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 07:02:17 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral. So much for
your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
No, it wouldn't. Perhaps you're one of those immoral assholes
who thinks it's ok to steal from others; I'm not. You're one of those
immoral assholes who thinks "I don't care about others, just so long
as I get mine. I can even enslave others to get mine. But I'll pretend
to care about others just so I can try to feel better about all the
immoral shit I do."

SPIT.

Immoral asshole.


Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-07 09:42:21 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
No, it wouldn't. Perhaps you're one of those immoral assholes
who thinks it's ok to steal from others; I'm not. You're one of those
immoral assholes who thinks "I don't care about others, just so long
as I get mine. I can even enslave others to get mine. But I'll pretend
to care about others just so I can try to feel better about all the
immoral shit I do."
Wow, that's a lot of psychological projection you crammed into that tiny
little paragraph!

"I don't care about others, just so long as I get mine" is basically the
motto of conservatism.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-07 12:17:50 UTC
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:42:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest people in the
world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and Finland.
No, it wouldn't. Perhaps you're one of those immoral assholes
who thinks it's ok to steal from others; I'm not. You're one of those
immoral assholes who thinks "I don't care about others, just so long
as I get mine. I can even enslave others to get mine. But I'll pretend
to care about others just so I can try to feel better about all the
immoral shit I do."
Wow, that's a lot of psychological projection
Nope. The fact that you wrote that is just you projecting onto
me.
Post by kensi
"I don't care about others, just so long as I get mine" is
your motto. And you just project that onto others so you can
feel better about your immoral stance.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-10 14:35:29 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:42:21 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
"I don't care about others, just so long as I get mine" is
your motto.
Wrong.

On the other hand, try this on for size:

As Paine put it in 1797:

"All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man’s
own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes
on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part
of that accumulation from whence the whole came."

The only update this needs for modern times is to make the thing
gender-neutral.

Note that it proves that tax evasion is immoral. :)
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Rick Johnson
2018-06-10 14:35:31 UTC
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[...]
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
You realize that socialism (which includes communism) is
nothing but a giant violation of rights. Which is immoral.
So much for your "conscience".
I think that would be a huge surprise to the happiest
people in the world, the citizens of Norway, Sweden, and
Finland.
Patty Hearst!

Patty Hearst!

Where art thou?

(Stockholm, perhaps?) o_O

duke
2018-06-05 21:35:32 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by Don Kresch
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:05:04 -0000 (UTC), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
So do we Republicans.
Liar.
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-06 11:04:46 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists", not "all socialists have consciences". Hint: the people
with consciences could be a *strict* subset of the socialists.

(Let alone "all people who *claim* to be socialist have consciences";
and it's pretty clear that Stalin was socialisting wrong, based on the
starvation of chunks of the population under his rule without *everyone*
starving *equally*.)
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-06 12:35:30 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 07:04:46 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists"
No, the claim was that all socialists have consciences. You
fail at logic forever.

Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.

Dumbfuck.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-07 09:44:51 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists"
No, the claim was that all socialists have consciences. You
fail at logic forever.
No, the claim was "'leftards' are communists and socialists because they
have consciences", i.e. having trait A causes trait B, i.e. everyone
with trait A has trait B as well. In this case, the causing trait A is
"have consciences" and the caused trait B is "communists and
socialists". Thus the inference is "all those who have consciences are
communists and socialists", as stated in my previous post.

SPNAK!
Post by Don Kresch
Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.
I furnished evidence that at least some of his policies were at variance
with fundamental tenets of socialism, k00k.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
benj
2018-06-07 09:51:00 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists"
    No, the claim was that all socialists have consciences. You
fail at logic forever.
No, the claim was "'leftards' are communists and socialists because they
have consciences", i.e. having trait A causes trait B, i.e. everyone
with trait A has trait B as well. In this case, the causing trait A is
"have consciences" and the caused trait B is "communists and
socialists". Thus the inference is "all those who have consciences are
communists and socialists", as stated in my previous post.
SPNAK!
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Post by kensi
    Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.
I furnished evidence that at least some of his policies were at variance
with fundamental tenets of socialism, k00k.
Yeah, your hero, a world record holder for murdering citizens had a real
conscience.

Nutjob.

Chortle (rule #5)
kensi
2018-06-07 12:04:50 UTC
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Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Post by benj
Post by kensi
    Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.
I furnished evidence that at least some of his policies were at
variance with fundamental tenets of socialism, k00k.
Yeah, your hero, a world record holder for murdering citizens had a real
conscience.
He's not my hero, koOky. He was a catastrophic failure as a socialist
and as a human being, much like you.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
benj
2018-06-07 19:55:42 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world. Just wait,
Kooker.
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
    Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.
I furnished evidence that at least some of his policies were at
variance with fundamental tenets of socialism, k00k.
Yeah, your hero, a world record holder for murdering citizens had a
real conscience.
He's not my hero, koOky. He was a catastrophic failure as a socialist
and as a human being, much like you.
I sure HOPE I'm a catastrophic failure as a socialist, nutjob. That
would make my life a fine success!

Hey if Stalin doesn't do it for you how about sharing your plans for a
"cultural revolution" for America? I'm sure it starts with a healthy
energy tax.

Loon.

Chortle. (rule #5)
kensi
2018-06-08 10:08:31 UTC
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Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-08 11:00:03 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
They are kind of dominating avant-guard furniture.
Don Kresch
2018-06-08 12:17:39 UTC
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On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 06:08:31 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
No, it doesn't. And governments are immoral and illegitimate,
as they are all based on the initiation of force.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-06-08 12:59:16 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 06:08:31 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
No, it doesn't. And governments are immoral and illegitimate,
as they are all based on the initiation of force.
And Hobbes explains why that's necessary.
kensi
2018-06-08 14:12:42 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
No, it doesn't.
Of course it does, or else it really would be a "failed system". What
else legitimate could it be for?
Post by Don Kresch
And governments are immoral and illegitimate, as they are all based on
the initiation of force.
Pure nonsense. You haven't been reading any of that l0on Ayn Rand's
tripe, have you?

As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force. The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force; i.e., a government that outlaws violence but
will use it when necessary to suppress it from others. Without that,
what one gets instead is multi-party violence, ranging in scale from
Hatfields-and-McCoys-like feuds through street gang warfare all the way
up to actual armies-on-battlefields international warfare.

Avoiding all of this violence means people making a pact not to initiate
violence, and enforcing such a pact requires occasionally using violence
to stop that of others. Labor specialization then sets in, until you
have something called "a government with a police force" as a
specialized organization and labor force within the larger population.
The alternative, again, is Wild West or Roaring 20s style street battles
between rival gangs. Do you really consider that alternative to be
preferable?
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Kevrob
2018-06-08 21:33:41 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
No, it doesn't.
Of course it does, or else it really would be a "failed system". What
else legitimate could it be for?
Post by Don Kresch
And governments are immoral and illegitimate, as they are all based on
the initiation of force.
Pure nonsense. You haven't been reading any of that l0on Ayn Rand's
tripe, have you?
Rand wasn't an anarchist. She supported limited, constitutional
government, and sneered at the libertarians who started the US
Libertarian Party. The LPers didn't demand everyone toe the
Objectivist line. However you got to libertarian policy positions
was fine with the LP, but for Rand, you had to agree with her on
every jot and tittle.
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force. The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force; i.e., a government that outlaws violence but
will use it when necessary to suppress it from others. Without that,
what one gets instead is multi-party violence, ranging in scale from
Hatfields-and-McCoys-like feuds through street gang warfare all the way
up to actual armies-on-battlefields international warfare.
Avoiding all of this violence means people making a pact not to initiate
violence, and enforcing such a pact requires occasionally using violence
to stop that of others. Labor specialization then sets in, until you
have something called "a government with a police force" as a
specialized organization and labor force within the larger population.
The alternative, again, is Wild West or Roaring 20s style street battles
between rival gangs. Do you really consider that alternative to be
preferable?
I'm a libertarian minarchist. Anarchism has its romantic attraction,
but I'd like to see us prune the state back quite a bit rather than
jump completely into that abyss, however charming the idea might be.

Kevin R
Don Kresch
2018-06-09 03:44:28 UTC
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On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:12:42 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Post by kensi
Post by benj
Communism and socialism are failed systems because leftists are as
greedy as the right.
Again, the Swedes would be surprised to hear that theirs is a "failed
system".
Right. Sweden is an economic superpower dominating the world.
It doesn't have to be. It just has to provide decent lives for all of
its citizens, and it does.
No, it doesn't.
Of course it does
No, it doesn't. Governments have but one thing to do:
dissolve.
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
And governments are immoral and illegitimate, as they are all based on
the initiation of force.
Pure nonsense.
Nope. Governments are coercive expropriating territorial
monopolies.
Post by kensi
You haven't been reading any of that l0on Ayn Rand's
tripe, have you?
Rand wasn't an anarchist; I am.
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force.
And that's immoral.
Post by kensi
The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force
There's no such thing. And monopolies are bad, RIGHT?

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-09 10:44:44 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:12:42 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force.
And that's immoral.
And that won't stop some people.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force
There's no such thing. And monopolies are bad, RIGHT?
Not in this case. Not when the alternative is to become another Somalia.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-10 01:32:36 UTC
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On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:44:44 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:12:42 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force.
And that's immoral.
And that won't stop some people.
No, it won't. But what you don't then do is violate people's
rights in response to that. You don't destroy the village in order to
save it.
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force
There's no such thing. And monopolies are bad, RIGHT?
Not in this case.
In all cases it is.
Post by kensi
Not when the alternative is to become another Somalia.
Ah, so our options are only Somalia and North Korea. I see.

Hey, you want to strawman--so will I. Tit for tat, bitch.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-10 09:28:38 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:44:44 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:12:42 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force.
And that's immoral.
And that won't stop some people.
No, it won't. But what you don't then do is violate people's
rights in response to that.
Rights don't exist without some means to enforce them, ko0ky. If the
above initiator of force is left to do as they please, nobody has any
rights in any meaningful sense. You end up with a cesspit like Somalia
in that instance. To avoid that there needs to be a general rule that
force is *only* to be used to stop other people from using force, where
*their* use would be in violation of this rule. That might be managed
informally in a small group, but a large group will need specialized
courts, police, and the like to deal with these situations -- and now
you have government.

You also have to prevent "violence of omission", in which someone is
simply excluded from everything and eventually starves. Because of
markets' propensity to reward more those who already have wealth, this
necessitates some amount of wealth redistribution to "keep everyone in
the game". /Monopoly/ ends when one player has all the moolah and
everyone else has been eliminated. In the real world that would result
in one extremely lonely trillionaire and seven billion corpses,
obviously not a desirable outcome. (Except that it would result in armed
insurrection much sooner than that, and this in turn would raise the
specter of a reappearance of Stalinism and Maoism.)
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force
There's no such thing. And monopolies are bad, RIGHT?
Not in this case.
In all cases it is.
Haven't you heard of "natural monopolies"? The only way to tame these
beasts is to nationalize them. In a pure market economy (which can't
really exist, except perhaps for very brief instances of time, rather
like quark-gluon plasma, before "hadronizing" into a bunch of squabbling
petty fiefdoms with unstable borders and gang warfare) a monopoly will
be unresponsive to anything, totally unaccountable. Having a government
that nationalizes it is the only thus-far known way to fix this problem,
by making it answerable ultimately to the voters.

An unfettered market will also result in monopolies that form when
someone manages to corner the market on something and amass enough of a
price-war chest (or just enough goons and guns) to suppress any would-be
upstart competitors in the future. Antitrust laws enforced by a
government can prevent cornering of the market, and the government
monopoly on use of force can prevent the private use of goon squads to
squash competitors.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Not when the alternative is to become another Somalia.
Ah, so our options are only Somalia and North Korea. I see.
Don't be ridiculous. Our options are only Somalia and government. But
"government" can be benign, as in Sweden; neglectful, as in the United
States; or malign, as in North Korea. (The US government is also malign
if its foreign policy is taken into consideration.)
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-10 12:28:57 UTC
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 05:28:38 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:44:44 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:12:42 -0400, kensi
Post by kensi
As soon as you have people clumped together in one place, someone could
initiate force.
And that's immoral.
And that won't stop some people.
No, it won't. But what you don't then do is violate people's
rights in response to that.
Rights don't exist without some means to enforce them, ko0ky.
So what, ko0ky? No one said anything different, ko0ky. Are you
one of those ko0ky ko0ks who thinks that you need an institution which
violates the rights of people in order do catch people who violate the
rights of others? Wow. What a fucking ko0ky ko0k you are.

I'll just throw your shit back at you. So you'd best stop.
Post by kensi
If the
above initiator of force is left to do as they please, nobody has any
rights in any meaningful sense. You end up with a cesspit like Somalia
Your stance leads to North Korea. Want to keep playing that
game, ko0k? I can play you game better than you, ko0k.
Post by kensi
in that instance. To avoid that there needs to be a general rule that
force is *only* to be used to stop other people from using force, where
*their* use would be in violation of this rule. That might be managed
informally in a small group, but a large group will need specialized
courts, police, and the like to deal with these situations -- and now
you have government.
You only have a government where you have a coercive
expropriating territorial monopoly. Courts, police, etc DO NOT mean
government. Unless, of course, you'd like to demonstrate the logical
requirement for government with those things. You'd be the first
person in history to do so. Think you're up to the task, ko0k?
Post by kensi
You also have to prevent "violence of omission", in which someone is
simply excluded from everything and eventually starves. Because of
markets' propensity to reward more those who already have wealth,
There's no such propensity, ko0k.
Post by kensi
this
necessitates some amount of wealth redistribution to "keep everyone in
the game"
IOW: steal from some and give to others. IOW: violate the
rights of others. What a ko0k you are.
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
The only way we've found to keep the amount of force
that gets initiated to a minimum is to have a monopoly on the
legitimated use of force
There's no such thing. And monopolies are bad, RIGHT?
Not in this case.
In all cases it is.
Haven't you heard of "natural monopolies"?
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

Educate yourself, ko0k.
Post by kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Not when the alternative is to become another Somalia.
Ah, so our options are only Somalia and North Korea. I see.
Don't be ridiculous.
I'm just following your strawman lead, ko0k. Don't like it?
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Cry me a river, ko0k.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
kensi
2018-06-10 14:23:22 UTC
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Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
If the
above initiator of force is left to do as they please, nobody has any
rights in any meaningful sense. You end up with a cesspit like Somalia
Your stance leads to North Korea.
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, and the
Netherlands.
Post by Don Kresch
Courts, police, etc DO NOT mean government.
Well, then, what would *you* call them?
Post by Don Kresch
Unless, of course, you'd like to demonstrate the logical
requirement for government with those things.
Erm, to run them? And to be the conduit for accountability to the
people? In the absence of such accountability, via courts and
legislatures and ultimately elections, or some similar mechanism,
"police" are just some private goon squad answerable only to the highest
bidder. That's not democracy. It's not even anarchy. It's feudalism: he
who has the gold makes the rules and sends his knights to enforce them
on the peasants.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
You also have to prevent "violence of omission", in which someone is
simply excluded from everything and eventually starves. Because of
markets' propensity to reward more those who already have wealth,
There's no such propensity, ko0k.
Of course there is. In a system where the only voting is with one's
pocketbook, the more dollars someone has, the more votes they have. So
the rich call the shots. And they will use that ability to rig the game
so that they capture more of the surplus from productivity and others
capture less, and consequently get even richer at the expense of
everyone else.

https://evonomics.com/how-capitalism-actually-generates-more-inequality/

"The process is cumulative: inequalities of wealth often lead to
differences in education, economic power, and further inequalities in
income."

(Left out of that list, but even more important perhaps: political power.)

"In real-world markets different sellers or buyers vary hugely in their
capacities to influence prices and other outcomes. When a seller has
sufficient saleable assets to affect market prices, then strategic
market behaviour is possible to drive out competitors."

That mechanism operates even in the complete absence of government,
politics, and the like. (But such an absence is an unstable vacuum.
Someone will buy up a lot of guns, hire a lot of foot soldiers, and
start throwing their weight around. Before long you will have a
government, probably a highly despotic one, and most likely more than
one, fighting vicious turf wars at their borders.)

There's also a key difference between markets in theory and markets in
practice. In the theory used by most supporters of capitalism, and
taught in most economics schools:

"Markets involve voluntary exchange, where both parties to an exchange
expect benefits."

In reality not all exchange can be voluntary. Human beings cannot do
without food, water, or shelter, and this creates huge demand
inelasticity for these basic necessities of life. That in turn leads to
breakdowns of models of markets that assume everyone is free to take or
leave every offer. If there are N options for food, and a rational
market actor per the theory would reject them all, in the real world
they'll have to take the least-worst one in order to not die, and that
distorts the market.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
this
necessitates some amount of wealth redistribution to "keep everyone in
the game"
IOW: steal from some and give to others. IOW: violate the
rights of others. What a ko0k you are.
Ownership of property is not, and cannot be, an absolute right. In
particular it cannot supersede the right of another person to live. If
the amount of redistribution needed to keep people from starving is
non-zero (and it clearly is), then that amount of redistribution is
necessarily justified.

Since dollars have diminishing marginal utility the more of them one
has, it is more justified to take them from the wealthiest people. Hence
progressive taxation. The utility taken away from the rich guy is less
than the utility bestowed upon the poor person who gets enough to eat
now, by far. Net utility goes up, and it goes up the most when a dollar
is redistributed from the richest individual to the poorest one.

In light of this, the only justification to have any inequality at all
is that one should capture some of the value of one's labor, and be
better off if having contributed more, partly as an incentive to do so.
This suggests that the wealthiest, in a truly just society, would be
skilled laborers and laborers who worked more hours, which is obviously
not what we see. Skilled laborers get anywhere from "not very much" to
"ridiculously large amounts", those who work the most hours are often
among the poorest, and the richest tend not to do anything at all that
could be called "labor" without inviting gales of laughter.
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Haven't you heard of "natural monopolies"?
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly
Mises.org ... LOL

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

though I would add that another fruitful source of natural monopolies is
network externalities. Tech companies with monopoly power usually got it
because of network externalities; consider Facebook and Microsoft in
particular.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
Don Kresch
2018-06-07 12:18:54 UTC
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On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 05:44:51 -0400, kensi
Post by Don Kresch
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists"
No, the claim was that all socialists have consciences. You
fail at logic forever.
No,
Yes. Learn to read, fucktard.
Post by Don Kresch
Just like your attempt at a No True Scotsman with Stalin.
I
used the No True Scotsman fallacy, yes you did.


Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.
duke
2018-06-06 16:49:10 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists",
Wrong.
Post by kensi
not "all socialists have consciences". Hint: the people
with consciences could be a *strict* subset of the socialists.
the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-07 09:45:47 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists",
Wrong.
I'm a far better authority of what *my* claim meant than you are, k0ok.
See my other post to this thread this morning.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-07 12:23:08 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists",
Wrong.
I'm a far better authority of what *my* claim meant than you are, k0ok.
You eat, you pay.
Post by kensi
See my other post to this thread this morning.
No.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
duke
2018-06-07 12:26:19 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
Post by duke
Then why are you leftards really communist and socialists?
Because we have consciences.
Stalin didn't have that.
You fail logic forever. The claim was "all people with consciences are
socialists",
Wrong.
I'm a far better authority of what *my* claim meant than you are, k0ok.
Then why didn't you explain it.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
kensi
2018-06-07 12:52:45 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by kensi
I'm a far better authority of what *my* claim meant than you are, k0ok.
Then why didn't you explain it.
I just did, elsewhere in this thread, loOn.
--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate
duke
2018-06-08 18:30:11 UTC
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Post by kensi
Post by duke
Post by kensi
I'm a far better authority of what *my* claim meant than you are, k0ok.
Then why didn't you explain it.
I just did, elsewhere in this thread, loOn.
John W.H. Denton AO, Secretary General, International Chamber of Commerce, said:
“The global business community’s position on trade is unambiguous. Far from
being a zero-sum game where some countries take advantage of others, rules-based
trade has lifted incomes and created jobs around the world. Today we risk
returning to a pre-WTO system where might equals right – jeopardizing the future
economic security of billions of people.”

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
JTEM
2018-06-09 05:58:52 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference. International trade.
World prosperity. Peace. The development of an international community. Stuff
like that.
Bullshit.

The G8 is rigged for the EU. California has
a bigger economy than three of the four EU
states that sit on the G8 yet the United
States gets only one seat. And without Russia,
the EU always has a majority!

As for "Trade War"...

The EU promised sanctions against the U.S.
for not going along with that stupid "Free
Trade" deal that ALL the major candidates
for President -- including Bernie -- came
out against. But someone idiots all think
it's Trump causing the trouble here...

Oh. And the U.S. wouldn't go along with the
Paris bullshit either, yet the U.S. actually
more than Europe, or any other economy for
that matter:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2017/10/24/yes-the-u-s-leads-all-countries-in-reducing-carbon-emissions/#39dcafd13535

So the EU was talking sanctions against the
U.S. for not going along with the bullshit,
and Trump gave them what they said they wanted...

You know, there's a lot to hate Trump for, but
don't even believe for one moment that there
isn't a lot to hate the Europe for.

Remember: You called Trump a Nazi for saying
he would enforce the immigration laws against
the illegals, while the U.K. voted to leave
the EU to get rid of legal immigrants!

Trump is more liberal than the UK. Sure he
sucks, you just suck more.




-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/174697149228
Rick Johnson
2018-06-10 14:24:45 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
And what do you flakes love?
Liberal values like inclusivity. Tolerance of difference.
International trade. World prosperity. Peace. The
development of an international community. Stuff like that.
When you look at the actual statistics, the world is
getting to be a better place. There's less violence.
There's less poverty.
Considering that poverty is a relevant concept, i fail to
see how it could be measured in any resonable manner.

Poverty:

"the state of being extremely poor."

"the state of being inferior in quality or insufficient in
amount."

With those definitions, it seems poverty is doomed to an
everlasting life. Which reminds me of a humorous
observation: "Like it or not, god made pot" -- the theists
hate that quote BTW ;-).

Of course, the moral of the story is that many times we
humans are directly responsible for inventing our own so-
called "evils" out of thin air. Personally, i see the
concept of poverty as being a form of brainwashing or
propaganda that flies quietly below the conscience radar. Of
course, when we "pull people out of poverty", we feel good
about ourselves. But is the act of replacing the absolute
freedom of poverty (eww... there's that dirty word again!)
and shackling those who we have "saved" into a life of
economic slavery _actually_ a benevolent act?

I dare say no.

Have we ever stopped to ask ourselves why we look so
disparagingly upon the "impoverished" and the "homeless"?
What is the _true_ source of this so-called pity? Sure,
Caesar's fresh-from-the-oven loafs are quite tasty, but they
come with a heavy price, and one that is not readily
apparent to most. Yes, even the educated and wise can be
controlled with a few paltry privileges (shocking, i know!).

Could it be, that as we gaze upon the so-called "less
fortunates (as we have so snobbishly dubbed them), through
the manipulative lenses of our reality-perverting Gulag
Goggles, that, unbeknownst to us, could it be that our
empathic gaze masks an insidious motive to rob these people
of their liberty? And if so, where did this motive come
from? Have we now fooled ourselves into believing that
robbery is a "good deed"? I dare say we _have_! For what
could possibly be more unliberal than the denial of liberty
_itself_?

Thus, the reason i am vehemently opposed to marriage...

Heterosexual marriage has been destroying families and
financially ruining the lives of countless people for
centuries. For instance: how many folks have committed
suicide or felt stigmatized (even by family and so-called
friends!) over a failed marriage? Thus, for me to watch as
the homosexual community willingly extended their wrists to
be shackled by state goons, so that they might receive
paltry privilege in return, is one of the saddest moments of
my life. We should be _destroying_ the liberty robbing
plague of marriage, not encouraging it to _spread_! Monogamy
does not require formalities. And no amount of formality can
ensure monogamy -- much less -- happiness.

But alas, it seems that as our social collectivity grows
evermore grotesquely _obese_, we simultaneously become ever
more consumed with fulfilling these "selfishly relevant"
desires (codified by our bot-masters) at the expense of our
own physical and mental well-being. We have now become an
infantile mob squabbling incessantly over social minutia.
And we must ask ourselves: "Who benefits from the social
chaos unleashed by the unattainable utopias promised by the
Charlatans and their side-kick toadies who peddle the
fairness doctrine to the unwashed masses?". And the answer
to _that_ question, is the entity who is responsible for
sucking all the emotional energy out of our collective
system; leaving us tired, frustrated, and -- most of all --
incapacitated.

The greatest threat to tyranny is not intelligence, no, for
logic and reason are as incomprehensible to the mob as
science, mathematics and evolution are to the hordes of
brainwashed fundy theists; the greatest threat to tyranny is
the collective power of emotion. Thus, the hypodermic fangs
become the tools of the trade, and the incessant
bloodletting merely a means to a tyrannical end.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
There's even a lower birthrate. And much of this
improvement is down to the spread of genuine liberal values
and internationallism plus the waning power of religion. So
my imagined future is the one in which current, favourable
trends continue and don't get buggered up by egotisitical
strong men like Trump and Putin.
Considering that the historical record is generously
peppered with "egotistical strong men", i'm afraid this
"imagined future" of yours relies far too heavily on
wishful thinking. O;-)
n***@live.nl
2018-06-10 09:58:58 UTC
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Democrats consider the USA to be a
mysoginist, racist, imperialist shithole.
It's why they take a knee at the
national anthem. Democrats pledge
allegiance to the flag of Sweden.
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