Discussion:
Theocracy, anyone?
(too old to reply)
ernobe
2017-04-13 00:42:49 UTC
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Hi all,

Here is a reply I sent to one of Sen McGlinns' posts, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/the-guardian-and-the-governor/
He seems to, as usual, have difficulties posting my replies, until
popular acclaim forces him to. He has been excommunicated from my
religion, the Baha'i Faith, for opposing the formation of a theocratic
state. I thought I'd let you in on it, for old times sake.

Dear Sen,
I'm Roy who originally posed the question of the Guardian and the
Governor in a previous post, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/uhj-to-anonymous-14-may-2006/ .
This is intended to answer your reply to it there and here.

Someone who runs a business or is on a school board, is exercising temporal
administrative authority, which can be subject to the temporal political
authority of a Baha'i assembly, each working in its own sphere of influence and
without overstepping its limits in relation to the other. There is no
contradiction.

What you are proposing conflates the "temporal authority" of politicians and
businessmen, in such a way that there is no room for the "spiritual authority"
of Baha'i institutions to act as a go between. If one is bent on an inevitable
and irreconcilable separation of materialism and spirituality, just such a
conflation of temporal political authority with temporal administrative
authority might do the job. But it goes against the Baha'i principle of the
unity of science and religion. There is more to it than a mere intellectual
exercise.

In the current society you may see examples of politicians and businessmen
colluding and saying there is no other way to do things. But they don't have
the real interests of humanity at heart. It is all self-serving, and the poor
ignorant masses have all been duped by them. Will you follow in their
footsteps?

In the Baha'i view the high minded, praiseworthy leaders of thought are those
who have recognized that unbridled materialism is the scourge of humanity, and
can only lead to chaos and confusion. This has ever been the case, and the
Baha'i Cause is what will ultimately rid the world of the scourge of politics
and politicians, fulfilling the most ardent, hopeful dreams of all the by-gone
prophets and seers.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-13 01:34:20 UTC
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No sects, please, we're atheists.

I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
,
Let Cosby Go-Justice Must Not Enable Sluts
2017-04-13 19:16:31 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
Post by Robert Carnegie
I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
,
Andrew
2017-04-13 20:12:40 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
Kevrob
2017-04-13 20:40:51 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?) are both
trolls in the group, though.

Whst I read this, ny first thiught was "What US state does Senator
McGlinn represent, (or is he in Seanad Éireann?)"

And 2013? Not exactly fresh news.

Kevin R
Andrew
2017-04-13 21:03:12 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.

Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.

Thank you!
Yap Honghor
2017-04-14 04:08:15 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.
Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.
I see you delude too much...if you have truth and own a creator, how come you cannot be crowned King of this earth????
Post by Andrew
Thank you!
Kidding yourself....
%
2017-04-14 04:12:15 UTC
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Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.
Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.
I see you delude too much...if you have truth and own a creator, how
come you cannot be crowned King of this earth????
Post by Andrew
Thank you!
Kidding yourself....
he can do anything he wants and no yap trap can stop him
Jeanne Douglas
2017-04-18 09:41:56 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.
Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.
WTF!!!!!! How, precisely, is that evidence for a god?
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-18 13:48:42 UTC
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 04:41:56 -0500, "Jeanne Douglas"
Post by Jeanne Douglas
Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.
Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.
The certifiable lunatic imagines that simply accepting reality for
what it is, is a belief while his pig-ignorant and deluded fantasies
are fact.
Post by Jeanne Douglas
WTF!!!!!! How, precisely, is that evidence for a god?
He's insane.

None of these idiots can even consider the fact that they believe in
it because that's what they were taught in early childhood at the
same time they learnt the words they later used to think with, and
whose meanings included "goddidit".

It's a colossal grow up that makes people mentally ill unless they
can throw it off.
Cloud Hobbit
2017-04-20 18:46:02 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
Yes.
-
- You and the nymshifting "African" bigot (Cody?)
- are both trolls in the group, though.
Then this is your opportunity to refute what is said
with what you believe is the truth. But you cannot,
which is evidence that there *is* a Creator. Yes.
Thank you!
You are a fucking moron.

The truth is there is no evidence of any kind of supernatural entity, therefore there is no reason to assume one exists.
hypatiab7
2017-04-13 21:00:31 UTC
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Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Post by Andrew
Yes.
Andrew
2017-04-13 21:07:28 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are
not welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Thank you. I always appreciate your special remarks.

I hope you have a wonderful day!
Don Martin
2017-04-13 22:18:53 UTC
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
:-)
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Nor anything worth hearing _to_ say. He is just another pseudotheist
bore.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-14 00:21:45 UTC
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:18:53 -0400, Don Martin
Post by Don Martin
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
The pig-ignorant, stupid, proven serial liar isn't one of us. He has
no reason even to be here apart from telling us he is an low IQ,
uneducated sociopath who stalks atheists here for the purposed of
religious harassment.
Post by Don Martin
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Andrew
:-)
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Nor anything worth hearing _to_ say. He is just another pseudotheist
bore.
It's fundamentalist god-bot. 'Nuff said.
A***@yahoo.com
2017-04-16 04:09:09 UTC
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Apr 13hypatiab7
On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 4:12:47 PM UTC-4, Andrew wrote:
- show quoted text -
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Yes.
The atheist FAQ says all are welcome. You call everyone you disagree with a troll.
Jeanne Douglas
2017-04-18 12:01:00 UTC
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Post by A***@yahoo.com
Apr 13hypatiab7
- show quoted text -
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Yes.
The atheist FAQ says all are welcome. You call everyone you disagree with a troll.
Why do you ignore the other parts of the FAQ??
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-18 14:02:38 UTC
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:01:00 -0500, "Jeanne Douglas"
Post by Jeanne Douglas
Post by A***@yahoo.com
Apr 13hypatiab7
- show quoted text -
You are an invading theist troll in alt.atheism, Andyroo. You are not
welcome here. And, although you say a lot, you have no say.
Yes.
The atheist FAQ says all are welcome. You call everyone you disagree with a troll.
The liar knows perfectly well it's not about disagreement but for
personal lies about us, to us.
Post by Jeanne Douglas
Why do you ignore the other parts of the FAQ??
Because he's a troll, in other words a hate-filled, cowardly, bullying
sadist, psychopath and narcissist who gets his rocks of by trying to
annoy other people by disrupting their regular on-line business..
Bob Officer
2017-04-13 22:49:45 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a stupid ignore fool.
Saw your mistakes and fixed them for you.

No need to say thanks. Make sure you eat your share of human flash and
drink blood.

BTW those same acts are forbidden by your god's father.
--
Dunning's work explained in clear, concise and simple terms.
John Cleese on Stupidity

John Locke
2017-04-15 21:32:04 UTC
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:12:40 -0700, "Andrew"
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
...wow, that should qualify you for a handicap sticker.
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-15 23:47:30 UTC
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:32:04 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:12:40 -0700, "Andrew"
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
Which is irrelevant, because the psycho isn't one of us.

Although he's not the first psychopathic loonie to think it's a game
and that he's part of our community.
Post by John Locke
...wow, that should qualify you for a handicap sticker.
Worse, he's certifiably insane.
Kit
2017-04-16 04:04:22 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:32:04 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:12:40 -0700, "Andrew"
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
Which is irrelevant, because the psycho isn't one of us.
Although he's not the first psychopathic loonie to think it's a game
and that he's part of our community.
Post by John Locke
...wow, that should qualify you for a handicap sticker.
Worse, he's certifiably insane.
Umm, Christopher Lee, you seem to be in the habit of labeling anyone outside of your personal sphere of exclusively atheist experience a "loonie" or "mentally ill". I happen to have a mental illness, namely, bi-polar disorder or as it is more commonly referred to manic-depression. I have first-hand experience on what it is like to be insane, which insights you obviously lack. Your repeated accusations only results in stigmatizing those who suffer from mental illnesses, and is a rather profound disservice to the mentally ill community at-large.
Don Martin
2017-04-16 14:24:55 UTC
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:32:04 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:12:40 -0700, "Andrew"
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
...wow, that should qualify you for a handicap sticker.
Mental incapacity is not among the listed handicaps in this state,
though we do see a lot of it around. If too severe, it results in the
suspension of all driving privileges, not in convenient parking.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
John Locke
2017-04-16 15:35:31 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:24:55 -0400, Don Martin
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:32:04 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:12:40 -0700, "Andrew"
Post by Andrew
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
Some are atheists. I am a theist,
and a creationist.
...wow, that should qualify you for a handicap sticker.
Mental incapacity is not among the listed handicaps in this state,
though we do see a lot of it around. If too severe, it results in the
suspension of all driving privileges, not in convenient parking.
..heh, heh...it's the little tidbits of knowledge I acquire from this
group that makes it all worthwhile !
hypatiab7
2017-04-13 20:58:10 UTC
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Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
It's just another attention bid. Women are second class in the Baha'i sect.
Pushing their 'faith' in alt.atheism is a waste of time.
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-13 21:22:43 UTC
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:58:10 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
An in sect. Or inn sect.
Christopher A. Lee
2017-04-13 21:23:15 UTC
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:58:10 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
It's just another attention bid. Women are second class in the Baha'i sect.
Pushing their 'faith' in alt.atheism is a waste of time.
Not to mention just plain rude.
We Will Always Hang FagZ And Castrate Jews
2017-04-13 21:31:44 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
You follow me, right?????
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
It's just another attention bid. Women are second class in the Baha'i sect.
Pushing their 'faith' in alt.atheism is a waste of time.
Olrik
2017-04-14 03:38:46 UTC
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Post by We Will Always Hang FagZ And Castrate Jews
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
You follow me, right?????
Nobody "follows" you, mentally deficient gnat. This is usenet, not
Facebook or Twitter.

You just post your crapola in *our* ng, and we react by destroying you
every single day.

Please kindly FOAD, maudit hypocrite de merde.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
Robert Carnegie
2017-04-14 01:22:00 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Post by Robert Carnegie
No sects, please, we're atheists.
:-)
You're a sect , too, Cody. You're the Cody sect. A sect with no followers.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I have a suspicion that the Falun Gong cult
are massive jerks. It was fashionable to like
them about fifteen year ago, byt, well, I don't.
It's just another attention bid. Women are second class in the Baha'i sect.
Pushing their 'faith' in alt.atheism is a waste of time.
A disturbing number of public and historical
figures that I admire have been misogynists.
So I try to admire them carefully.

Putting it into ä religion is almost redundant.
Kit
2017-04-13 16:07:34 UTC
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Post by ernobe
Hi all,
Here is a reply I sent to one of Sen McGlinns' posts, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/the-guardian-and-the-governor/
He seems to, as usual, have difficulties posting my replies, until
popular acclaim forces him to. He has been excommunicated from my
religion, the Baha'i Faith, for opposing the formation of a theocratic
state. I thought I'd let you in on it, for old times sake.
Dear Sen,
I'm Roy who originally posed the question of the Guardian and the
Governor in a previous post, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/uhj-to-anonymous-14-may-2006/ .
This is intended to answer your reply to it there and here.
Someone who runs a business or is on a school board, is exercising temporal
administrative authority, which can be subject to the temporal political
authority of a Baha'i assembly, each working in its own sphere of influence and
without overstepping its limits in relation to the other. There is no
contradiction.
What you are proposing conflates the "temporal authority" of politicians and
businessmen, in such a way that there is no room for the "spiritual authority"
of Baha'i institutions to act as a go between. If one is bent on an inevitable
and irreconcilable separation of materialism and spirituality, just such a
conflation of temporal political authority with temporal administrative
authority might do the job. But it goes against the Baha'i principle of the
unity of science and religion. There is more to it than a mere intellectual
exercise.
In the current society you may see examples of politicians and businessmen
colluding and saying there is no other way to do things. But they don't have
the real interests of humanity at heart. It is all self-serving, and the poor
ignorant masses have all been duped by them. Will you follow in their
footsteps?
In the Baha'i view the high minded, praiseworthy leaders of thought are those
who have recognized that unbridled materialism is the scourge of humanity, and
can only lead to chaos and confusion. This has ever been the case, and the
Baha'i Cause is what will ultimately rid the world of the scourge of politics
and politicians, fulfilling the most ardent, hopeful dreams of all the by-gone
prophets and seers.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I, attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
hypatiab7
2017-04-13 21:05:20 UTC
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Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Hi all,
Here is a reply I sent to one of Sen McGlinns' posts, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/the-guardian-and-the-governor/
He seems to, as usual, have difficulties posting my replies, until
popular acclaim forces him to. He has been excommunicated from my
religion, the Baha'i Faith, for opposing the formation of a theocratic
state. I thought I'd let you in on it, for old times sake.
Dear Sen,
I'm Roy who originally posed the question of the Guardian and the
Governor in a previous post, at
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/about/uhj-to-anonymous-14-may-2006/ .
This is intended to answer your reply to it there and here.
Someone who runs a business or is on a school board, is exercising temporal
administrative authority, which can be subject to the temporal political
authority of a Baha'i assembly, each working in its own sphere of influence and
without overstepping its limits in relation to the other. There is no
contradiction.
What you are proposing conflates the "temporal authority" of politicians and
businessmen, in such a way that there is no room for the "spiritual authority"
of Baha'i institutions to act as a go between. If one is bent on an inevitable
and irreconcilable separation of materialism and spirituality, just such a
conflation of temporal political authority with temporal administrative
authority might do the job. But it goes against the Baha'i principle of the
unity of science and religion. There is more to it than a mere intellectual
exercise.
In the current society you may see examples of politicians and businessmen
colluding and saying there is no other way to do things. But they don't have
the real interests of humanity at heart. It is all self-serving, and the poor
ignorant masses have all been duped by them. Will you follow in their
footsteps?
In the Baha'i view the high minded, praiseworthy leaders of thought are those
who have recognized that unbridled materialism is the scourge of humanity, and
can only lead to chaos and confusion. This has ever been the case, and the
Baha'i Cause is what will ultimately rid the world of the scourge of politics
and politicians, fulfilling the most ardent, hopeful dreams of all the by-gone
prophets and seers.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I, attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Please don't do it in alt.atheism. That would make you a troll acting against our FAQ/charter.
ernobe
2017-04-14 15:48:04 UTC
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Post by Kit
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of
peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful
discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I,
attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect
of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some
meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and
extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Well, it could be said that we, too, are "sharing an office" here at
alt.atheism, and on the front door there is a sign which reads,
"Submissions for relocation to the Baha'i theocracy processed here".

No, really, contrary to popular belief, even such a harrowing experience
as alt.atheism is suitable for this work. I can well imagine the
contemporary university experience being somewhat similar. On the web
there are plenty of Baha'i university types, which can be found almost
anywhere you do a google search. In fact, as early as 1998 there was a
major shake-up in the Baha'i community as academics began discussing the
challenges they felt the Faith imposed on them in their academic
careers. Of course, its leadership was not slow to miss the insiduous
nature of such exchanges in public forums, and several of those involved
resigned from the Faith. I like to think of it as a "tip of the
iceberg" type of phenomenon. Of course, it is just my personal belief
and not something I'm inclined to dwell on even with my co-religionists.
You may find out more about it at:
http://www.bahai-library.com/compilation_issues_study_bahai
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-14 20:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of
peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful
discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I,
attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect
of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some
meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and
extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Well, it could be said that we, too, are "sharing an office" here at
alt.atheism, and on the front door there is a sign which reads,
"Submissions for relocation to the Baha'i theocracy processed here".
No, really, contrary to popular belief, even such a harrowing experience
as alt.atheism is suitable for this work. I can well imagine the
contemporary university experience being somewhat similar. On the web
there are plenty of Baha'i university types, which can be found almost
anywhere you do a google search. In fact, as early as 1998 there was a
major shake-up in the Baha'i community as academics began discussing the
challenges they felt the Faith imposed on them in their academic
careers. Of course, its leadership was not slow to miss the insiduous
nature of such exchanges in public forums, and several of those involved
resigned from the Faith. I like to think of it as a "tip of the
iceberg" type of phenomenon. Of course, it is just my personal belief
and not something I'm inclined to dwell on even with my co-religionists.
http://www.bahai-library.com/compilation_issues_study_bahai
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of an interchange of ideas?
ernobe
2017-04-14 22:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of
peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful
discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I,
attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect
of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some
meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and
extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Well, it could be said that we, too, are "sharing an office" here at
alt.atheism, and on the front door there is a sign which reads,
"Submissions for relocation to the Baha'i theocracy processed here".
No, really, contrary to popular belief, even such a harrowing experience
as alt.atheism is suitable for this work. I can well imagine the
contemporary university experience being somewhat similar. On the web
there are plenty of Baha'i university types, which can be found almost
anywhere you do a google search. In fact, as early as 1998 there was a
major shake-up in the Baha'i community as academics began discussing the
challenges they felt the Faith imposed on them in their academic
careers. Of course, its leadership was not slow to miss the insiduous
nature of such exchanges in public forums, and several of those involved
resigned from the Faith. I like to think of it as a "tip of the
iceberg" type of phenomenon. Of course, it is just my personal belief
and not something I'm inclined to dwell on even with my co-religionists.
http://www.bahai-library.com/compilation_issues_study_bahai
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
3) God's continuous relationship with His creation and His intervention
in human life and history are the very essence of the teachings of
the Founders of the revealed religions, while dogmatic materialism
insists that even the nature of religion itsel can be adequately
understood only through the use of an academic methodology designed
to ignore the truths that make religion what it is.
4) Bahá'u'lláh asserts the spiritual nature of reality and of
humanity's dependence on the interventions of Divine Revelation.

I'm sorry if you find even this too verbose. I often find myself having
to sort out the empty, idle verbiage often found in alt.atheism from
such verbosity as can express the true extent and scope of ideas that
can be productive of a fruitful exchange.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-15 19:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of
peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful
discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I,
attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect
of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some
meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and
extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Well, it could be said that we, too, are "sharing an office" here at
alt.atheism, and on the front door there is a sign which reads,
"Submissions for relocation to the Baha'i theocracy processed here".
No, really, contrary to popular belief, even such a harrowing experience
as alt.atheism is suitable for this work. I can well imagine the
contemporary university experience being somewhat similar. On the web
there are plenty of Baha'i university types, which can be found almost
anywhere you do a google search. In fact, as early as 1998 there was a
major shake-up in the Baha'i community as academics began discussing the
challenges they felt the Faith imposed on them in their academic
careers. Of course, its leadership was not slow to miss the insiduous
nature of such exchanges in public forums, and several of those involved
resigned from the Faith. I like to think of it as a "tip of the
iceberg" type of phenomenon. Of course, it is just my personal belief
and not something I'm inclined to dwell on even with my co-religionists.
http://www.bahai-library.com/compilation_issues_study_bahai
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
Post by ernobe
3) God's continuous relationship with His creation and His intervention
in human life and history are the very essence of the teachings of
the Founders of the revealed religions, while dogmatic materialism
insists that even the nature of religion itsel can be adequately
understood only through the use of an academic methodology designed
to ignore the truths that make religion what it is.
4) Bahá'u'lláh asserts the spiritual nature of reality and of
humanity's dependence on the interventions of Divine Revelation.
I'm sorry if you find even this too verbose. I often find myself having
to sort out the empty, idle verbiage often found in alt.atheism from
such verbosity as can express the true extent and scope of ideas that
can be productive of a fruitful exchange.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
ernobe
2017-04-16 16:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about God
to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-17 04:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about God
to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
OK. What is God doing today?
Post by ernobe
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Smiler
2017-04-17 23:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major
undertaking to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections
from the ancillary details. Could you briefly highlight some of
the Bahai beliefs for a basis of an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to
the views of persons technically trained in Middle East
studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to
reform existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about
God to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
OK. What is God doing today?
The same as he's always been doing, resting and hiding.
--
Smiler,
The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made to
exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
ernobe
2017-04-18 00:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about God
to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
OK. What is God doing today?
He is laying the only sure foundation on which those essential
relationships that binds us all together can be built.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-18 07:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about God
to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
OK. What is God doing today?
He is laying the only sure foundation on which those essential
relationships that binds us all together can be built.
Why do you say it is the *only* foundation upon which relevant relationships can be built?

Don't you think that humans can handle their affairs successfully without divine intervention?

-- Kit
Post by ernobe
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
ernobe
2017-04-18 16:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
OK. What is God doing today?
He is laying the only sure foundation on which those essential
relationships that binds us all together can be built.
Why do you say it is the *only* foundation upon which relevant relationships can be built?
Don't you think that humans can handle their affairs successfully without divine intervention?
-- Kit
You previously asked what I thought God was doing. Now apparently you are asking
what I think God is not doing. Why? If you think God is doing
something other than what I said previously, just say so, no need to
drive me under the bus.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-18 16:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
OK. What is God doing today?
He is laying the only sure foundation on which those essential
relationships that binds us all together can be built.
Why do you say it is the *only* foundation upon which relevant relationships can be built?
Don't you think that humans can handle their affairs successfully without divine intervention?
-- Kit
You previously asked what I thought God was doing. Now apparently you are asking
what I think God is not doing. Why? If you think God is doing
something other than what I said previously, just say so, no need to
drive me under the bus.
People from various religious backgrounds ascribe certain things to God. There are other things they don't ascribe to God. Please clarify for me what Bahai's believe God does or does not do. Thank you.
Post by ernobe
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
ernobe
2017-04-19 21:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
People from various religious backgrounds ascribe certain things to God. There
are other things they don't ascribe to God. Please clarify for me what Bahai's
believe God does or does not do. Thank you.
We ascribe to God that which He ascribes to Himself, not that which He does not.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-20 18:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
People from various religious backgrounds ascribe certain things to God. There
are other things they don't ascribe to God. Please clarify for me what Bahai's
believe God does or does not do. Thank you.
We ascribe to God that which He ascribes to Himself, not that which He does not.
Is God responsible for the weather, earthquakes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters or "acts of "God"?

Will God select a marriage mate for each individual believer or will the believer be left to his/her own devices?
Post by ernobe
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
ernobe
2017-04-21 00:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
People from various religious backgrounds ascribe certain things to God. There
are other things they don't ascribe to God. Please clarify for me what Bahai's
believe God does or does not do. Thank you.
We ascribe to God that which He ascribes to Himself, not that which He does not.
Is God responsible for the weather, earthquakes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters or "acts of "God"?
They are sent to test us.
Post by Kit
Will God select a marriage mate for each individual believer or will the
believer be left to his/her own devices?
Likewise. It is not for us to complain, saying, 'O God, this is not the
marriage I signed up for', or the weather, etc. If one partner can
remain faithful to God, the other may be protected from straying. If we
are alerted to a powerful storm, we may deal with it in such a way that
we'll benefit from what unseen benefits it brings. We've tamed it.
Condemned are those who fling up their arms saying, 'God?, there is no
god', and get swept away by the storm.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Kit
2017-04-21 08:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
People from various religious backgrounds ascribe certain things to God. There
are other things they don't ascribe to God. Please clarify for me what Bahai's
believe God does or does not do. Thank you.
We ascribe to God that which He ascribes to Himself, not that which He does not.
Is God responsible for the weather, earthquakes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters or "acts of "God"?
They are sent to test us.
Are you saying God is responsible for natural disasters and so-called "acts of God"?
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Will God select a marriage mate for each individual believer or will the
believer be left to his/her own devices?
Likewise. It is not for us to complain, saying, 'O God, this is not the
marriage I signed up for', or the weather, etc. If one partner can
remain faithful to God, the other may be protected from straying. If we
are alerted to a powerful storm, we may deal with it in such a way that
we'll benefit from what unseen benefits it brings. We've tamed it.
Condemned are those who fling up their arms saying, 'God?, there is no
god', and get swept away by the storm.
Why would God condemn those who say, "God? There is no God?"
I know the Baha'i faith is not a Christian faith, but in the Christian faith God did not condemn Jesus for saying, "My God,
My God, Why have you forsaken me?"
Post by ernobe
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
Olrik
2017-04-18 04:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
He is saying that we should address what questions we may have about God
to His son, Abdu'l-Baha.
OK. What is God doing today?
<http://www.ecology.com/birth-death-rates/>

It's killing! 8 deaths/1,000 population
It's giving birth! 19 births/1,000 population

But ultimately, it doesn't exist, and life is just a death sentence.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
Cloud Hobbit
2017-04-20 18:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
Post by Kit
You seem to be a likeable fellow. I am unfamiliar with the particulars of
peculiarities of the Bahai(sp?) faith. I wish to engage you in meaningful
discourse. As an aside, some years
ago, I shared an office with a fellow by the name of Mark Towfiq. He, like I,
attended Princeton University. He used as his nym "Unity" reflact some aspect
of his strongly-held Bah'ai beliefs. I wish we could have engaged in some
meaningful discussion and exchange ideas, but were there do to our work, and
extended periods of discourse would be misuse of company time.
Well, it could be said that we, too, are "sharing an office" here at
alt.atheism, and on the front door there is a sign which reads,
"Submissions for relocation to the Baha'i theocracy processed here".
No, really, contrary to popular belief, even such a harrowing experience
as alt.atheism is suitable for this work. I can well imagine the
contemporary university experience being somewhat similar. On the web
there are plenty of Baha'i university types, which can be found almost
anywhere you do a google search. In fact, as early as 1998 there was a
major shake-up in the Baha'i community as academics began discussing the
challenges they felt the Faith imposed on them in their academic
careers. Of course, its leadership was not slow to miss the insiduous
nature of such exchanges in public forums, and several of those involved
resigned from the Faith. I like to think of it as a "tip of the
iceberg" type of phenomenon. Of course, it is just my personal belief
and not something I'm inclined to dwell on even with my co-religionists.
http://www.bahai-library.com/compilation_issues_study_bahai
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
The link you pointed to me is rather verbose. It would be a major undertaking
to study it carefully parse out the relevant sections from the ancillary
details. Could you briefly highlight some of the Bahai beliefs for a basis of
an interchange of ideas?
1) Institutional authority is established by the Covenant of God, which
supersedes the interpretive authority commonly attributed to the
views of persons technically trained in Middle East studies.
2) Bahá'u'lláh is the voice of God to our age, not merely a particularly
enlightened moral philosopher whose primary concern is to reform
existing society.
What precisely is Baha'u'llah saying to us today?
What all theists say about god. Nothing.
Post by Kit
Post by ernobe
3) God's continuous relationship with His creation and His intervention
in human life and history are the very essence of the teachings of
the Founders of the revealed religions, while dogmatic materialism
insists that even the nature of religion itsel can be adequately
understood only through the use of an academic methodology designed
to ignore the truths that make religion what it is.
4) Bahá'u'lláh asserts the spiritual nature of reality and of
humanity's dependence on the interventions of Divine Revelation.
I'm sorry if you find even this too verbose. I often find myself having
to sort out the empty, idle verbiage often found in alt.atheism from
such verbosity as can express the true extent and scope of ideas that
can be productive of a fruitful exchange.
--
https://archive.org/services/purl/bahai
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