Discussion:
RCC - Why I'm No Longer Roman Catholic - Part 1
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Bob
2017-09-11 12:00:39 UTC
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--
"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."
[Matthew 15:8, 9]
a322x1n
2017-09-11 23:13:15 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
We're about to be treated to another of Boob's videos. Break out the
popcorn and candy!!!
duke
2017-09-12 19:15:23 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position was solely
based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself proclaims that the scripted
word in only a part of what Jesus said and did.

Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.

G.K. Chesterton
*****
Cloud Hobbit
2017-09-13 07:35:34 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position was solely
based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself proclaims that the scripted
word in only a part of what Jesus said and did.
Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.
the dukester, The Great Pretender
*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/ag0_popes.htm
IOW the Catholic church is bad for you.
I can see how the wine might be considered good, it's easy to come by and not too expensive and the altar get shit faced easy so the priests can, you know, be very unholy with the aforementioned altar boys.

No wonder you're so proud of your religion they have a history every bit as crazy as you are.

The first two popes in the third century, Zephyrinus and Callistus, were both accused of heresy* by Tertullian and also by St Hippolytus. Marcellinus, who was Bishop of Rome from 296 to 304, offered incense to the pagan gods. For this his name was afterwards omitted from official lists of popes. Three of the next four popes seem to have assisted him, despite being already in Holy Orders, but all of them, including Marcellinus, are now revered as saints. In the middle of the fourth century Pope Liberius condemned Athanasius, the champion of orthodoxy against Arian heretics. This act provided absolute proof that a pope could fall into error. Early in the fifth century Pope Zosimus accepted the Pelagian heresy (see page 127) and changed his mind only when obliged to do so by the Emperor. He then issued a document known as his Tractoria, which reversed his earlier position. The fifth century popes Innocent I and Gelasius I both claimed that babies who died after baptism but before receiving Communion would go straight to Hell. This view was later contradicted and condemned by the Council of Trent , but is now open again since Pope Benedict XVI teaches Original Sin but denies the existence of Purgatory.

Pope Vigilius, in 548, formally condemned the Three Chapters already mentioned, which had been formally approved by the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon in 451. He subsequently wavered, trying to appease both supporters and opponents, withdrawing his condemnation in 551. He was himself declared a heretic and excommunicated by the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553, which he refused to attend. In exile, but under no duress, except the knowledge that a new pope was to be elected, he wrote a letter admitting that he had been deluded by the wiles of the Devil. He confirmed his error and accepted the decrees of Constantinople. This incident provided proof that a council was superior to a pope.

In the seventh century Pope Honorius I was condemned for a heresy called Monothelitism, the view that Christ had only one will (rather than two — one human and one divine). In 649 Pope Martin I condemned the Monothelete doctrine accepted by Honorius. Subsequently, Honorius was condemned not only by the Sixth General Council, but also by Pope Leo II, who stated that he had tried with profane treachery to subvert the immaculate faith. Subsequent popes were required at their consecration to take an oath condemning Honorius's heresy. In 1046 the Emperor Henry III presided over a synod at Sutri that deposed two popes, secured the abdication of a third, and appointed a fourth (Clement II). The most significant acts of Pope Celestine II in the twelfth century were reversals of decisions made by his predecessor Innocent II. Also in the twelfth century Pope Adrian VI declared Pope Celestine III a heretic for extending the conditions under which marriages could be dissolved. Again, the timeless validity of the bull Super cathedram, issued by Pope Boniface VIII in 1301, was somewhat compromised by his blessed successor, Pope Benedict XI, who annulled it because of its unpopularity.

One way out of the problem of fallible popes up to this date is to say that popes were infallible only when addressing the whole Church. The first bull explicitly to do so was Boniface VIII's Unam sanctam in 1302. But this opens up the question of why no pope made an infallible statement for over 1250 years, and admits that until that time only councils expressed the mind of the Church — a most uncomfortable admission for the Vatican.



"Heathens"
Witches
Heretics
Schismatics
Cathars
Jews
Inquisition Victims
Philosophers
Freethinkers
Blasphemers
Apostates
Humanists
Pantheists
Unitarians
Deists
Atheists

Church & State
Symbiosis
Meddling in Governance
Interference in Politics
Abuse of Power
Church Law and Justice
Exemption from the Law
Unofficial Exemption
Financial Privileges
Control Over Education
Human Rights
Freedom of Belief
Religious Toleration
Freedom of Expression
Freedom of Enjoyment
Attitudes to Sex
Celibacy
Sex Within Marriage
Sex Outside Marriage
Incest
Rape
Homosexuality
Transvestism
Prostitution
Pederasty
Bestiality
Sadomasochism
Necrophilia
Consequences

Science & Medicine
Ancient Times
Dark and Middle Ages
Sixteenth Century
Seventeenth Century
Eighteenth Century
Nineteenth Century
20th and 21st Centuries
Medical Records Compared
Violence & Warfare
Crusades
God's Wars
Churches' Wars
Christian Atrocities
Cultural Vandalism
The Classical World
Europe
The Wider Modern World
Possible Explanations
Summing up

Marketing Religion
Marketing Christianity

Continuing Damage
Religious Discrimination
Christian Discrimination
Moral Dangers
Abuse of Power

A Final Summing Up



Bibliography


Search site



Bad News Blog

Religious Quotations

Christianity & Human Rights

Christian Prooftexts

Social Media







There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day....
Luke 16:19



Successive popes have informed the world that they are set above the rest of mankind, and enjoy direct communications with the deity. The Holy Spirit guides their election, and their power extends not merely to God's eternal Church, but beyond this world to the next. When speaking ex cathedra on faith or morals they are literally infallible, just like the Byzantine Emperors used to be before them.

Despite the theory, it is fair to say that popes have proved their fallibility in all manner of circumstances*. Some have contradicted others. Some have contradicted themselves. Some have been guilty of heresy, by departing from what their predecessors and their successors regarded as orthodoxy. The Eastern Churches have condemned Roman popes for a number of heresies — tampering with the creeds, Sabellianism (see page 123), enforcing clerical celibacy, and so on. The first two popes in the third century, Zephyrinus and Callistus, were both accused of heresy* by Tertullian and also by St Hippolytus. Marcellinus, who was Bishop of Rome from 296 to 304, offered incense to the pagan gods. For this his name was afterwards omitted from official lists of popes. Three of the next four popes seem to have assisted him, despite being already in Holy Orders, but all of them, including Marcellinus, are now revered as saints. In the middle of the fourth century Pope Liberius condemned Athanasius, the champion of orthodoxy against Arian heretics. This act provided absolute proof that a pope could fall into error. Early in the fifth century Pope Zosimus accepted the Pelagian heresy (see page 127) and changed his mind only when obliged to do so by the Emperor. He then issued a document known as his Tractoria, which reversed his earlier position. The fifth century popes Innocent I and Gelasius I both claimed that babies who died after baptism but before receiving Communion would go straight to Hell. This view was later contradicted and condemned by the Council of Trent , but is now open again since Pope Benedict XVI teaches Original Sin but denies the existence of Purgatory.

Pope Vigilius, in 548, formally condemned the Three Chapters already mentioned, which had been formally approved by the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon in 451. He subsequently wavered, trying to appease both supporters and opponents, withdrawing his condemnation in 551. He was himself declared a heretic and excommunicated by the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553, which he refused to attend. In exile, but under no duress, except the knowledge that a new pope was to be elected, he wrote a letter admitting that he had been deluded by the wiles of the Devil. He confirmed his error and accepted the decrees of Constantinople. This incident provided proof that a council was superior to a pope.

In the seventh century Pope Honorius I was condemned for a heresy called Monothelitism, the view that Christ had only one will (rather than two — one human and one divine). In 649 Pope Martin I condemned the Monothelete doctrine accepted by Honorius. Subsequently, Honorius was condemned not only by the Sixth General Council, but also by Pope Leo II, who stated that he had tried with profane treachery to subvert the immaculate faith. Subsequent popes were required at their consecration to take an oath condemning Honorius's heresy. In 1046 the Emperor Henry III presided over a synod at Sutri that deposed two popes, secured the abdication of a third, and appointed a fourth (Clement II). The most significant acts of Pope Celestine II in the twelfth century were reversals of decisions made by his predecessor Innocent II. Also in the twelfth century Pope Adrian VI declared Pope Celestine III a heretic for extending the conditions under which marriages could be dissolved. Again, the timeless validity of the bull Super cathedram, issued by Pope Boniface VIII in 1301, was somewhat compromised by his blessed successor, Pope Benedict XI, who annulled it because of its unpopularity.

One way out of the problem of fallible popes up to this date is to say that popes were infallible only when addressing the whole Church. The first bull explicitly to do so was Boniface VIII's Unam sanctam in 1302. But this opens up the question of why no pope made an infallible statement for over 1250 years, and admits that until that time only councils expressed the mind of the Church — a most uncomfortable admission for the Vatican.

[The Papacy developed a doctrine that all earthly emperors, kings and princes should kiss the pope's feet] Later, in the fourteenth century, Pope John XXII preached that saints in Heaven are not yet permitted to see God. The Church hierarchy felt this matter to be of the greatest importance. The established teaching was that the saints did see God. John was obliged to reconsider under threat of deposition, and with a gentle reminder that heretics get burned. His reconsideration led him to change his mind. In 1523 Pope Adrian VI summed up the official line on papal infallibility with specific reference to John's heresy:

If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgement or decretal. In truth, many Roman Pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was John XXII*.

The traditional teaching of the Church has been that embryos do not acquire a soul until 40 days (if they are male) or 80 days (if they are female) after conception. One consequence of this was that abortion could not possibly be homicide if carried out up to 40 days after conception. This view was confirmed on a number of occasions, notably by Gregory XIII in the sixteenth century. However, his successor Sixtus V, in his bull Effraenatum of 1588, stated that all abortion amounted to homicide and was punishable by excommunication. His successor Gregory XIV had different ideas and decided that Sixtus's censures were to be disregarded. Modern Popes, starting with Pius IX in 1869, have made a third U-turn.

Even the greatest of popes seem to have been surprisingly fallible. Pope Gregory I (St Gregory the Great), for example, taught emphatically that Christ alone was conceived without Original Sin. This indeed was the official line for 1,000 years. Then, after centuries of lobbying on behalf of the Virgin Mary, it was decided that she too had been born without Original Sin (this is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception). In 1854 Pope Pius IX announced in his bull Ineffabilis Deus that "the doctrine was revealed by God and therefore is to be firmly and steadfastly believed by all the faithful". Now it was heretical to deny the Immaculate Conception, so the world discovered that Gregory I had been a heretic all along.

In 1963 Pope John XXIII accepted total liberty of conscience, a concept that earlier popes had considered heretical. Gregory XVI had considered it monstrous and absurd, and Pius IX described it as a cardinal error. Popes had made other massive mistakes over many centuries. One after another they affirmed that documents fabricated in the papal chancery were genuine. Whether they knew it or not they were in error. Even with the benefit of direct communication with God, they were consistently, repeatedly, and unquestionably wrong. They spoke with supreme authority on matters that were pivotal to the faith yet were wrong time and time again. They held that the Bible was the literal word of God, and thus espoused an erroneous cosmology — stating as a fact that Galileo was in error, when they themselves were in error. In an unbroken line from the thirteenth century, more than eighty popes failed to identify any moral difficulties with the operations of the Inquisition. Many rose to power through it, thoroughly approved of it, and extended its power. Many popes, on numerous occasions, confirmed the existence of witches, and the fact that they possessed supernatural powers. After Innocent VIII, it was heretical to deny it.


What an inspiring history the RCC has.
BTW, do you know about this Veith guy?

You'd probably find him inspiring.
Post by duke
G.K. Chesterton
*****
duke
2017-09-13 21:11:50 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:35:34 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Post by duke
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position was solely
based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself proclaims that the scripted
word in only a part of what Jesus said and did.
Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.
the dukester, The Great Pretender
*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/ag0_popes.htm
IOW the Catholic church is bad for you.
I can see how the wine might be considered good, it's easy to come by and not too expensive and the altar get shit faced easy so the priests can, you know, be very unholy with the aforementioned altar boys.
Sounds like something you would do.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
No wonder you're so proud of your religion they have a history every bit as crazy as you are.
The first two popes in the third century, Zephyrinus and Callistus, were both accused of heresy* by Tertullian and also by St Hippolytus. Marcellinus, who was Bishop of Rome from 296 to 304,
offered incense to the pagan gods. For this his name was afterwards omitted from official lists of popes. Three of the next four popes seem to have assisted him, despite being already in Holy Orders,
but all of them, including Marcellinus, are now revered as saints. In the middle of the fourth century Pope Liberius condemned Athanasius, the champion of orthodoxy against Arian heretics. This act
provided absolute proof that a pope could fall into error. Early in the fifth century Pope Zosimus accepted the Pelagian heresy (see page 127) and changed his mind only when obliged to do so by the Emperor.
He then issued a document known as his Tractoria, which reversed his earlier position. The fifth century popes Innocent I and Gelasius I both claimed that babies who died after baptism but before
receiving Communion would go straight to Hell. This view was later contradicted and condemned by the Council of Trent , but is now open again since Pope Benedict XVI teaches Original Sin but denies the existence of Purgatory.
Do you understand the Jesus, who founded the Catholic Church, left it to the
Apostles and the ones taking their place to establish what the Church was to be.
There are certain specifics he left behind but, by and large, the future was to
be designed by men.

The events you mentioned above were brought up by men, and subsequently rejected
by other men as not in accordance with the known teachings of Jesus Christ.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Pope Vigilius, in 548, formally condemned the Three Chapters already mentioned, which had been formally approved by the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon in 451. He subsequently wavered, trying to appease both supporters and opponents, withdrawing his condemnation in 551. He was himself declared a heretic and excommunicated by the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553, which he refused to attend. In exile, but under no duress, except the knowledge that a new pope was to be elected, he wrote a letter admitting that he had been deluded by the wiles of the Devil. He confirmed his error and accepted the decrees of Constantinople. This incident provided proof that a council was superior to a pope.
In the seventh century Pope Honorius I was condemned for a heresy called Monothelitism, the view that Christ had only one will (rather than two — one human and one divine). In 649 Pope Martin I condemned the Monothelete doctrine accepted by Honorius. Subsequently, Honorius was condemned not only by the Sixth General Council, but also by Pope Leo II, who stated that he had tried with profane treachery to subvert the immaculate faith. Subsequent popes were required at their consecration to take an oath condemning Honorius's heresy. In 1046 the Emperor Henry III presided over a synod at Sutri that deposed two popes, secured the abdication of a third, and appointed a fourth (Clement II). The most significant acts of Pope Celestine II in the twelfth century were reversals of decisions made by his predecessor Innocent II. Also in the twelfth century Pope Adrian VI declared Pope Celestine III a heretic for extending the conditions under which marriages could be dissolved. Again, the
timeless validity of the bull Super cathedram, issued by Pope Boniface VIII in 1301, was somewhat compromised by his blessed successor, Pope Benedict XI, who annulled it because of its unpopularity.
One way out of the problem of fallible popes up to this date is to say that popes were infallible only when addressing the whole Church. The first bull explicitly to do so was Boniface VIII's Unam sanctam in 1302. But this opens up the question of why no pope made an infallible statement for over 1250 years, and admits that until that time only councils expressed the mind of the Church — a most uncomfortable admission for the Vatican.
None of these were infallible statements and corrected by the later Church.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.

G.K. Chesterton
*****
b***@gmail.com
2017-09-13 13:05:30 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position was solely
based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself proclaims that the scripted
word in only a part of what Jesus said and did.
Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.
Doctor Tarsitano has not made a mistake. You have.

You believing that everything Jesus said or done should have been included in the Bible. That's a pretty big mistake.

The Bible says it's not necessary to have everything Jesus said or done included.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Everything anyone needs is already in the Bible.

You wanting to add to the Word is blasphemy.
--
"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."
[Matthew 15:8, 9]
Mitchell Holman
2017-09-13 17:59:09 UTC
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Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position
was solely based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself
proclaims that the scripted word in only a part of what Jesus said
and did.
Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.
Doctor Tarsitano has not made a mistake. You have.
You believing that everything Jesus said or done should have been
included in the Bible. That's a pretty big mistake.
The Bible says it's not necessary to have everything Jesus said or done included.
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for
reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the
man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
"Some parts of the Bible are meant to be interpreted
metaphorically." Robert Duncan, Nov 3 2013. He has yet
to tell us what those parts are.
duke
2017-09-14 16:35:36 UTC
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Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Stupid doc T make a massive mistake when he proclaimed his position was solely
based on the Bible. Heeheehee. The Bible itself proclaims that the scripted
word in only a part of what Jesus said and did.
Stupid doc T can't even see his mistake.
Doctor Tarsitano has not made a mistake. You have.
He has made a massive set of mistakes. And it all started when he proclaimed at
the beginning his source was "All SCRIPTURE". He was too stupid to understand
the John 21:25 openly said that only a part of what Jesus said and taught is in
script.
Post by b***@gmail.com
You believing that everything Jesus said or done should have been included in the Bible. That's a pretty big mistake.
Po old doc Tarsitano thinks it's all in script.
Post by b***@gmail.com
The Bible says it's not necessary to have everything Jesus said or done included.
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
Everything anyone needs is already in the Bible.
Yet it's people like po old doc tarsitano that refuses to follow so much of what
Jesus said and did that is in fact exactly found in script.
Post by b***@gmail.com
You wanting to add to the Word is blasphemy.
Adding is not necessary. The tulips problem is that they totally refuse to
follow so much of that which is in script.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.

G.K. Chesterton
*****

Cloud Hobbit
2017-09-13 07:21:42 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Not another video that nobody will watch.

I just figured you switched to Calvinism because they were more snobbish and snotty than Catholics, not that Catholics can't be damn snobby, they can.
It takes a special kind of person to believe something even goofier than Catholicism.
Jeanne Douglas
2017-09-13 18:28:00 UTC
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Post by Cloud Hobbit
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Not another video that nobody will watch.
I just figured you switched to Calvinism because they were more snobbish and snotty than Catholics, not that Catholics can't be damn snobby, they can.
It takes a special kind of person to believe something even goofier than Catholicism.
Speaking of, this week's expose of Scientology by Leah Remini is called "The Rise of David Miscavige", which explains how he behaved in getting rid of anyone who could challenge him for power after Hubbard died.

Remini said that when she was having a conversation with him, he asked her if she knew what he did all day. He spent all day every day trying to root out "suppressive persons" in his organization. Just a typical fascist tyrant.
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
duke
2017-09-13 21:12:43 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:21:42 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Not another video that nobody will watch.
I just figured you switched to Calvinism because they were more snobbish and snotty than Catholics, not that Catholics can't be damn snobby, they can.
It takes a special kind of person to believe something even goofier than Catholicism.
His utubes are all crap from tulips.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine
and a good cigar.

G.K. Chesterton
*****
Cloud Hobbit
2017-09-13 07:44:33 UTC
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On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:03:08 AM UTC-7, Bob wrote:

You should read this guy.

https://redeeminggod.com/my-history-with-calvinism/
Here's an excerpt.

The sources of influence were numerous and varied.

One elder named Bob Weaver challenged me to view God differently than I had before. I read some books which were recommended to me by others. God’s Strategy in Human History was helpful, as were various books by Samuel Fisk, Harry Ironside, C. Gordon Olson, Laurence Vance, and Dave Hunt.

Also, I was preaching at this time through the book of Ephesians, and my research and study on Ephesians 1 helped me to see that this chapter does not teach Unconditional Election as many Calvinists claim. Somewhere during those first five years as a pastor, all three of the remaining points of Calvinism crumbled in my mind.

Doesn't that pique your interest just a little?
Africa-Has-No-Boss-But-Jesus
2017-09-13 15:05:58 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
--
"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."
[Matthew 15:8, 9]
"But it is no longer necessary to construct or be guided by a logical argument. What matters is that the result be consonant with the American Satanic Constitution."
default
2017-09-13 15:17:47 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
Why I'm not any kind of a Catholic - because religion is bull shit.
Africa-Has-No-Boss-But-Jesus
2017-09-13 18:09:24 UTC
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Post by Bob
http://youtu.be/HwyY7BvN62s
--
"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."
[Matthew 15:8, 9]
Catholicism and Christianity are not the same by what standard?
By the standard of your reading of the Bible?
For your information this Bible supports Judaism, Orthodoxy-Catholicism, and Islam.
Since you're a Sola Scriptura adept in your reading you're around the clock Jew, Catholic, Muslim.
I heard that Chocolate is processed from Cocoa beans which is produced of a tree. When I was a child I couldn't make a connection between the two.
So are you now, stuck with the cocoa beans unable to process them. I must confess that the Greco-Romans who processed Christianity got Catholicism and the Arabs who did the same with Christianity got Islam. While you dance around trying to pass off the Atheism or Neo-paganism of the American founding fathers as Christianity. YOU CANNOT FOOL US AGAIN......
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