Discussion:
Alternet - America is Suffering an Epidemic of 'Dishonest Fake Belief' — Promoted by the People Who Took Over the GOP
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Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-13 14:42:27 UTC
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Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.

Full article at...

https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
John Locke
2018-06-13 14:52:42 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
...nothing new here. We've known for years that politicians have to
fake being Christian in order to garner votes from the
religious...even though most politicians know damned well that
Christianity is just a bunch of horse shit.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-13 15:02:56 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:52:42 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
...nothing new here. We've known for years that politicians have to
fake being Christian in order to garner votes from the
religious...even though most politicians know damned well that
Christianity is just a bunch of horse shit.
It fools the religious rednecks.

If a candidate is overtly religious in Britain, he doesn't have a
chance of getting elected, except in Northern Ireland.

Even in the most religious parts of Scotland and Wales. the so-called
Christian Party usually loses its deposit, ie the money paid up front
and intended to weed out candidates who aren't serious.

AFAIR the only time one of their candidates didn't lose it, was in
2007, in the (Scottish) Highlands and Islands where they came fourth
with a massive 1,048 votes.
MarkA
2018-06-13 15:42:49 UTC
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Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you can
get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-
belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop

Good article. Thanks for sharing. It syncs well with a podcast I was
just listening to about tribal psychology:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-unchecked-
tribal-psychology-pollutes-politics-science-and-just-about-everything-
else/
--
MarkA

You can safely assume that you have created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. -- Anne Lamott
Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-13 15:55:06 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you can
get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-
belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Good article. Thanks for sharing. It syncs well with a podcast I was
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-unchecked-tribal-psychology-pollutes-politics-science-and-just-about-everything-else/
Good link.
Kevrob
2018-06-13 23:12:59 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you can
get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-
belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Good article. Thanks for sharing. It syncs well with a podcast I was
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-unchecked-tribal-psychology-pollutes-politics-science-and-just-about-everything-else/
Good link.
Those of you alive in the 60s may remember the conservative insult,
"limousine liberal." Republicans like John Lindsay, elected to Congress
from Manhattan's "silk stocking" district* on the Upper East Side, or
"Rockefeller Republicans," got hit with that, as did well-to-do Democrats
such as the other Rockefeller, Jay, related by marriage to Sen Charles
Percy of IL. The Kennedys were slagged as LLs, especially Bobby and Teddy,
Jack less so. A Nancy Pelosi, well-off before she married "real money,"
would be the current doyen of this appellation. She grew up the daughter
of a Maryland congressman, later mayor of Baltimore. A real rags-to-
riches story, hers.

The Senate is full of millionaires of both wings of the party duopoly,
and the "I'm a champion of the working /m/a/n/ family" crap is just
as much hooey as the "ghod, guns & guts" signalling done by notionally
religious GOP candidates and opinion leaders. I don't know which group
I detest more: the cocktail party social democrats [remembering Tom
Wolfe's "Radical Chic" essay,] or the "traditional Americans" who
never darken the door of a church except when it's campaign season and
they want to ask for votes from the suckers.

Then there's the African-American church, which gets converted into
a campaign forum regularly. I've been to all-candidate cattle calls
at black churches when I did political work. At the local Catholic
church, they would often have a gymnasium or school cafeteria where
they could hold a forum. Black churches would often set it up right
in the sanctuary, and being younger, and newer to atheism, that seemed
somehow creepier. I gather some of the southern, white Protestant
churches do something similar, as I saw Roy Moore begging for votes
from the pulpit. And some of these pastors wonder why separationists
might suggest pulling tax exemptions from churches exercising their
First Amendment rights in that particular way. [I wouldn't, but I'm
pretty hardcore on Amendment 1.] If you've only got the one auditorium,
that's the one you use, I guess.

Team A are jerks. Team B are jerks.

Kevin R

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_East_Side#Politics
Kit
2018-06-13 23:59:13 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you can
get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-
belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Good article. Thanks for sharing. It syncs well with a podcast I was
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/02/26/yanss-122-how-our-unchecked-tribal-psychology-pollutes-politics-science-and-just-about-everything-else/
Good link.
Those of you alive in the 60s may remember the conservative insult,
"limousine liberal." Republicans like John Lindsay, elected to Congress
from Manhattan's "silk stocking" district* on the Upper East Side, or
"Rockefeller Republicans," got hit with that, as did well-to-do Democrats
such as the other Rockefeller, Jay, related by marriage to Sen Charles
Percy of IL. The Kennedys were slagged as LLs, especially Bobby and Teddy,
Jack less so. A Nancy Pelosi, well-off before she married "real money,"
would be the current doyen of this appellation. She grew up the daughter
of a Maryland congressman, later mayor of Baltimore. A real rags-to-
riches story, hers.
The Senate is full of millionaires of both wings of the party duopoly,
and the "I'm a champion of the working /m/a/n/ family" crap is just
as much hooey as the "ghod, guns & guts" signalling done by notionally
religious GOP candidates and opinion leaders. I don't know which group
I detest more: the cocktail party social democrats [remembering Tom
Wolfe's "Radical Chic" essay,] or the "traditional Americans" who
never darken the door of a church except when it's campaign season and
they want to ask for votes from the suckers.
Then there's the African-American church, which gets converted into
a campaign forum regularly. I've been to all-candidate cattle calls
at black churches when I did political work. At the local Catholic
church, they would often have a gymnasium or school cafeteria where
they could hold a forum. Black churches would often set it up right
in the sanctuary, and being younger, and newer to atheism, that seemed
somehow creepier. I gather some of the southern, white Protestant
churches do something similar, as I saw Roy Moore begging for votes
from the pulpit. And some of these pastors wonder why separationists
might suggest pulling tax exemptions from churches exercising their
First Amendment rights in that particular way. [I wouldn't, but I'm
pretty hardcore on Amendment 1.] If you've only got the one auditorium,
that's the one you use, I guess.
Team A are jerks. Team B are jerks.
Kevin R
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_East_Side#Politics
Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man of modest means" decides to run for Congress. He is dependent of donations to his campaign, and is unquestionable accountable to those with deep pockets. In short, every legislator in the house and Senate is corrupt.

-- Kit
Cloud Hobbit
2018-06-14 06:16:24 UTC
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Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man >of modest means" decides to run for Congress. He is >dependent of donations to his campaign, and is >unquestionable accountable to those with deep pockets. >In short, every legislator in the house and Senate is >corrupt.
->- Kit

I am convinced that as long as the government controls things it has no business controlling that kind of corruption will continue.

All the government agencies with the control over so much practically invites corruption.

Government, particularly at the federal level, should focus on doing things that help protect individual liberty.

I see very little justification for them doing anything else.
MarkA
2018-06-14 13:14:33 UTC
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Post by Cloud Hobbit
Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man >of modest means"
decides to run for Congress. He is >dependent of donations to his
campaign, and is >unquestionable accountable to those with deep pockets.
In short, every legislator in the house and Senate is >corrupt.
->- Kit
I am convinced that as long as the government controls things it has no
business controlling that kind of corruption will continue.
All the government agencies with the control over so much practically invites corruption.
Government, particularly at the federal level, should focus on doing
things that help protect individual liberty.
I see very little justification for them doing anything else.
The current system promotes corporate sponsorship of members of the House
and Senate. Eliminating private funding of elections would be a big help
in making the Federal government more responsive to the "little guy".

WRT the government controlling too much, "mission creep" is certainly an
issue. OTOH, as our societies get more intertwined, there is little we
do that doesn't have an impact on everyone else. The government's job is
to protect one individual's rights from another individual's liberties.
--
MarkA

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain
Kevrob
2018-06-14 13:50:22 UTC
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Post by MarkA
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man >of modest means"
decides to run for Congress. He is >dependent of donations to his
campaign, and is >unquestionable accountable to those with deep pockets.
In short, every legislator in the house and Senate is >corrupt.
->- Kit
I am convinced that as long as the government controls things it has no
business controlling that kind of corruption will continue.
All the government agencies with the control over so much practically
invites corruption.
Government, particularly at the federal level, should focus on doing
things that help protect individual liberty.
I see very little justification for them doing anything else.
The current system promotes corporate sponsorship of members of the House
and Senate. Eliminating private funding of elections would be a big help
in making the Federal government more responsive to the "little guy".
WRT the government controlling too much, "mission creep" is certainly an
issue. OTOH, as our societies get more intertwined, there is little we
do that doesn't have an impact on everyone else. The government's job is
to protect one individual's rights from another individual's liberties.
Exactly the wrong solution. "Millionaire candidates" was a response to the
campaign finance "laws," which had an exception carved out for "self-funders"
in the Buckley v Valeo decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

I put the "laws" in campaign finance "laws" in quotes, as I
consider them unconstitutional restrictions on First Amendment
guarantees of freedom of speech, press and association. Ten

After Buckley, 10 "fatcat" donors couldn't each give $100k to a
plausible candidate with the natural talent and temperament to
be a good congressman for his district, but one of them could
donate $1m to his own candidacy! The Law of Unintended Consequences
strikes again!

I'm reminded of the 1980 West Virginia campaign where Jay Rockefeller
faced Arch Moore. Moore supporters had bumper stickers that read,
"Make him spend it all, Arch!" Look at how much dough Minnesota's
Mark Dayton ran through before finally getting elected. Having the
biggest budget doesn't guarantee victory. It does scare others out of
primary races.

Tax funded campaigns mean taxing Citizen A to pay for the dissemination
of opinions he may disapprove, and I disagree with that just as I oppose
mandatory tithes to churches.

Kevin R
TT Liams
2018-06-14 21:47:28 UTC
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Post by MarkA
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man >of modest means"
decides to run for Congress. He is >dependent of donations to his
campaign, and is >unquestionable accountable to those with deep pockets.
In short, every legislator in the house and Senate is >corrupt.
->- Kit
I am convinced that as long as the government controls things it has no
business controlling that kind of corruption will continue.
All the government agencies with the control over so much
practically
Post by MarkA
Post by Cloud Hobbit
invites corruption.
Government, particularly at the federal level, should focus on doing
things that help protect individual liberty.
I see very little justification for them doing anything else.
The current system promotes corporate sponsorship of members of the House
and Senate. Eliminating private funding of elections would be a big help
in making the Federal government more responsive to the "little guy".
WRT the government controlling too much, "mission creep" is
certainly an
Post by MarkA
issue. OTOH, as our societies get more intertwined, there is
little we
Post by MarkA
do that doesn't have an impact on everyone else. The government's job is
to protect one individual's rights from another individual's
liberties.

It's the Republican's that are so corrupt.
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 01:49:12 UTC
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On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 8:16:26 AM UTC-5, MarkA wrote:
[...]
Post by MarkA
The current system promotes corporate sponsorship of
members of the House and Senate. Eliminating private
funding of elections would be a big help in making the
Federal government more responsive to the "little guy".
Exactly. But i'd go further. $1 is the maximum donation any
one person can make to any one candidate -- including the
candidate him/her _self_. And contrary to what the courts
would have us believe, corporations are _not_ people -- they
never have been and they never will be.
Post by MarkA
WRT the government controlling too much, "mission creep" is
certainly an issue. OTOH, as our societies get more
intertwined, there is little we do that doesn't have an
impact on everyone else.
And that's the problem. The components of modern society are
far too tightly coupled, and so much so, that we are living
with the bugs that are the result of a poorly designed
system.

And every time we attempt to "tweak" the system, in hopes of
removing this or that little bug, we create, as a result,
dozens of new bugs in diverse places.

We really need a bottom-up redesign of this whole damned
mess.
MarkA
2018-06-15 14:32:43 UTC
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[...]
Post by MarkA
The current system promotes corporate sponsorship of members of the
House and Senate. Eliminating private funding of elections would be a
big help in making the Federal government more responsive to the
"little guy".
Exactly. But i'd go further. $1 is the maximum donation any one person
can make to any one candidate -- including the candidate him/her _self_.
And contrary to what the courts would have us believe, corporations are
_not_ people -- they never have been and they never will be.
Post by MarkA
WRT the government controlling too much, "mission creep" is certainly
an issue. OTOH, as our societies get more intertwined, there is little
we do that doesn't have an impact on everyone else.
And that's the problem. The components of modern society are far too
tightly coupled, and so much so, that we are living with the bugs that
are the result of a poorly designed system.
And every time we attempt to "tweak" the system, in hopes of removing
this or that little bug, we create, as a result, dozens of new bugs in
diverse places.
We really need a bottom-up redesign of this whole damned mess.
You can't design such a complex system bottom-up. The best we can do is
use the same tool nature uses: evolution. Design a simple system.
Modify it in the hope of improving it (recognizing that changes will have
unforeseen consequences). Decide if the change solved more problems than
it created. Keep the change if it did; reject it if it didn't. Repeat
indefinitely.

We know, from biological evolution, which has been going on for billions
of years, that evolution won't produce an ideal solution, but it should
produce one that is "good enough".
--
MarkA

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 22:58:32 UTC
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On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 9:34:34 AM UTC-5, MarkA wrote:
[...]
Post by MarkA
You can't design such a complex system bottom-up.
I dunno. Given that we quite a bit of history to learn from,
i believe we could create quite a few impressive designs.
The real problem would be the implementation of said
"redesign", which would case a terrible amount of
disruption.
Post by MarkA
evolution. Design a simple system. Modify it in the hope of
improving it (recognizing that changes will have unforeseen
consequences). Decide if the change solved more problems
than it created. Keep the change if it did; reject it if
it didn't. Repeat indefinitely.
Yes. But biological evolution is constrained by powerful
forces. A lame male could never defeat a healthy male in
mortal combat and thus earn the right to breed. And
mutations which do not benefit the organism who carry them
will be lost when the evolutionary branch they walk along
comes an abrupt end. These are the checks and balances which
prevent the forward trajection of evolution from wandering
astray. And these checks and balances cannot be bought or
sold. These forces are totally beyond the awareness (of
most), and the control (of all) of the organisms for which
they act upon.

But such is not the case with political power...

And although we'd like to believe that democracy gives the
people the power to choose their leaders, the reality is,
the game is rigged. And that is why i will not support *ANY*
political party because they exist for the sole purpose of
concentrating the flow of money.

And perhaps, initially, they began as nothing but
aggregations of like minded individuals who banded-together
in common cause (nothing wrong with that). However, the
problem manifested when these groups morphed from simple
aggregations of individuals into a whole new _species_. A
species which then became so large and powerful -- thanks to
an endless and exponential influx of money! -- they
marginalized the individual and transformed themselves to
the top of the food chain.

And nothing happens in politics now, that is not _first_
approved by the super predator parties. In the American
system, if a candidate is not a republican or a democrat,
well then, shit, the chances of winning an election hovers
very near to absolute zero.

So in order to restore democracy (if it _ever_ existed?), we
must cut off the flow of money that is feeding these super
predator parties. And after the fat cats realize they can no
longer profit on the back of our democracy -- a democracy of
the *PEOPLE* -- they will scurry back to the corporate pig
pens from whence they came. And then we round them up and
truck them off to the proverbial slaughter houses. And then
we will dine on swine.

All we have to do is stop feeding them.

That's the first step.

All else will naturally follow.

And though the pigs don't realize it yet, *WE THE PEOPLE*
are _all_ that stands between _them_ and the brutality of
this universe. These sleazy unqualified fucks are an
*ABOMINATION* of the natural order. And the universe is on
_our_ side in this fight, not theirs.

"The servants (truly do) have the power"

We want evolution, and we want it *NOW*!
Post by MarkA
We know, from biological evolution, which has been going on
for billions of years, that evolution won't produce an
ideal solution, but it should produce one that is "good
enough".
Yes, you are correct that we cannot create a Utopia.

Personally i believe it is impossible for a Utopia to exist
in this universe.

Though, certainly we can do better, yes?
%
2018-06-15 23:02:59 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by MarkA
You can't design such a complex system bottom-up.
I dunno. Given that we quite a bit of history to learn from,
i believe we could create quite a few impressive designs.
The real problem would be the implementation of said
"redesign", which would case a terrible amount of
disruption.
Post by MarkA
evolution. Design a simple system. Modify it in the hope of
improving it (recognizing that changes will have unforeseen
consequences). Decide if the change solved more problems
than it created. Keep the change if it did; reject it if
it didn't. Repeat indefinitely.
Yes. But biological evolution is constrained by powerful
forces. A lame male could never defeat a healthy male in
mortal combat and thus earn the right to breed. And
mutations which do not benefit the organism who carry them
will be lost when the evolutionary branch they walk along
comes an abrupt end. These are the checks and balances which
prevent the forward trajection of evolution from wandering
astray. And these checks and balances cannot be bought or
sold. These forces are totally beyond the awareness (of
most), and the control (of all) of the organisms for which
they act upon.
But such is not the case with political power...
And although we'd like to believe that democracy gives the
people the power to choose their leaders, the reality is,
the game is rigged. And that is why i will not support *ANY*
political party because they exist for the sole purpose of
concentrating the flow of money.
And perhaps, initially, they began as nothing but
aggregations of like minded individuals who banded-together
in common cause (nothing wrong with that). However, the
problem manifested when these groups morphed from simple
aggregations of individuals into a whole new _species_. A
species which then became so large and powerful -- thanks to
an endless and exponential influx of money! -- they
marginalized the individual and transformed themselves to
the top of the food chain.
And nothing happens in politics now, that is not _first_
approved by the super predator parties. In the American
system, if a candidate is not a republican or a democrat,
well then, shit, the chances of winning an election hovers
very near to absolute zero.
So in order to restore democracy (if it _ever_ existed?), we
must cut off the flow of money that is feeding these super
predator parties. And after the fat cats realize they can no
longer profit on the back of our democracy -- a democracy of
the *PEOPLE* -- they will scurry back to the corporate pig
pens from whence they came. And then we round them up and
truck them off to the proverbial slaughter houses. And then
we will dine on swine.
All we have to do is stop feeding them.
That's the first step.
All else will naturally follow.
And though the pigs don't realize it yet, *WE THE PEOPLE*
are _all_ that stands between _them_ and the brutality of
this universe. These sleazy unqualified fucks are an
*ABOMINATION* of the natural order. And the universe is on
_our_ side in this fight, not theirs.
"The servants (truly do) have the power"
We want evolution, and we want it *NOW*!
Post by MarkA
We know, from biological evolution, which has been going on
for billions of years, that evolution won't produce an
ideal solution, but it should produce one that is "good
enough".
Yes, you are correct that we cannot create a Utopia.
Personally i believe it is impossible for a Utopia to exist
in this universe.
Though, certainly we can do better, yes?
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+the+man+from+utopia&view=detail&mid=DFCD01E15389D77A7A42DFCD01E15389D77A7A42&FORM=VIRE
Alex W.
2018-06-16 05:53:05 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by MarkA
You can't design such a complex system bottom-up.
I dunno. Given that we quite a bit of history to learn from,
i believe we could create quite a few impressive designs.
The real problem would be the implementation of said
"redesign", which would case a terrible amount of
disruption.
Plus, there are many, many different ways to skin this particular cat.
In the past hundred years or so, we have literally had hundreds of such
systems designed and implemented all over the world. The one thing that
unites them is that none of them are perfect and all of them have had
critics pointing out shortcomings pretty much from Day One.
Post by Rick Johnson
Post by MarkA
evolution. Design a simple system. Modify it in the hope of
improving it (recognizing that changes will have unforeseen
consequences). Decide if the change solved more problems
than it created. Keep the change if it did; reject it if
it didn't. Repeat indefinitely.
Yes. But biological evolution is constrained by powerful
forces. A lame male could never defeat a healthy male in
mortal combat and thus earn the right to breed. And
mutations which do not benefit the organism who carry them
will be lost when the evolutionary branch they walk along
comes an abrupt end. These are the checks and balances which
prevent the forward trajection of evolution from wandering
astray. And these checks and balances cannot be bought or
sold. These forces are totally beyond the awareness (of
most), and the control (of all) of the organisms for which
they act upon.
But such is not the case with political power...
Is it not?

Political power is quite prone to being swept along by popular pressure,
influenced or suborned by fashionable philosophies and ideologies,
irresistibly pushed towards certain actions and policies by
uncontrollable outside forces. The "tides of history" is not just a
snappy quote, it is a daily reality for political power.
Post by Rick Johnson
And although we'd like to believe that democracy gives the
people the power to choose their leaders, the reality is,
the game is rigged. And that is why i will not support *ANY*
political party because they exist for the sole purpose of
concentrating the flow of money.
Plus, it is really not a very good idea to leave the power to choose
one's leaders in the hands of the people. There are enough examples
littering the history books to show what happens when the people are
given free choice. For one of the most recent cases, look at Egypt:
when Mubarak fell during the Arab Spring, political parties were
rudimentary and stunted, had not established machineries and procedures
for concentrating the flow of money and influencing the state. The
result was a massive vote for the Muslim Brotherhood. Or take Iraq,
where the abolition of one-party rule and the imposition of democracy
led the newly enfranchised people to retreat into ethnic and religious
sectarianism.
Post by Rick Johnson
And perhaps, initially, they began as nothing but
aggregations of like minded individuals who banded-together
in common cause (nothing wrong with that). However, the
problem manifested when these groups morphed from simple
aggregations of individuals into a whole new _species_. A
species which then became so large and powerful -- thanks to
an endless and exponential influx of money! -- they
marginalized the individual and transformed themselves to
the top of the food chain.
Which is a universal phenomenon of human behaviour, occurring in almost
all areas of endeavour. Your description also fits religion. It fits
sports. It fits the arts and charities. Hell, it fits the American
Rabbit Breeders Association.
Post by Rick Johnson
And nothing happens in politics now, that is not _first_
approved by the super predator parties. In the American
system, if a candidate is not a republican or a democrat,
well then, shit, the chances of winning an election hovers
very near to absolute zero.
Except where independent or third-party candidates with VERY deep
pockets step up to the plate.... Ross Perot, anyone?

The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the two big
parties in the US which has them operate a "big tent" approach. They
thus hoover up and subsume political forces that might otherwise have
morphed into parties of their own. Between the two, they cover pretty
much the full spectrum of politics, leaving no room for third parties to
grow and establish themselves as a genuine force.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-06-16 20:46:25 UTC
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There seems to be a concerted effort to keep 3rd party candidates or parties from ever getting on the ballot.

https://psmag-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/psmag.com/.amp/news/how-states-are-blocking-a-third-party-run?amp_js_v=a1&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fpsmag.com%2Fnews%2Fhow-states-are-blocking-a-third-party-run
Kevrob
2018-06-17 04:59:07 UTC
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Post by Cloud Hobbit
There seems to be a concerted effort to keep 3rd party candidates or parties from ever getting on the ballot.
https://psmag-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/psmag.com/.amp/news/how-states-are-blocking-a-third-party-run?amp_js_v=a1&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fpsmag.com%2Fnews%2Fhow-states-are-blocking-a-third-party-run
Whoa!

This calls for a shortened link!

https://preview.tinyurl.com/PSMag-3rdParty OR

https://tinyurl.com/PSMag-3rdParty

I approve of posting the actual link, in full, but people
use certain types of software that can't handle something
that long.

Kevin R
Rick Johnson
2018-06-17 14:55:50 UTC
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On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 11:59:11 PM UTC-5, Kevrob wrote:
[...]
Post by Kevrob
I approve of posting the actual link, in full, but people
use certain types of software that can't handle something
that long.
Where i come from, we have a name for software like that: broken.
a322x1n
2018-06-17 15:01:44 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by Kevrob
I approve of posting the actual link, in full, but people
use certain types of software that can't handle something
that long.
Where i come from, we have a name for software like that: broken.
Perhaps "Tiny URL" can help:

<https://tinyurl.com/>

It even has a browser tool to automate the process.
Rick Johnson
2018-06-16 20:56:22 UTC
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Post by Alex W.
[...]
The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the
two big parties in the US [...] Between the two, they cover
pretty much the full spectrum of politics, leaving no room
for third parties to grow and establish themselves as a
genuine force.
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
%
2018-06-16 21:02:25 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Alex W.
[...]
The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the
two big parties in the US [...] Between the two, they cover
pretty much the full spectrum of politics, leaving no room
for third parties to grow and establish themselves as a
genuine force.
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
monopoly
Rick Johnson
2018-06-16 21:16:33 UTC
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Post by %
Post by Rick Johnson
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
monopoly
Yeah, that works too.
%
2018-06-16 21:19:38 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by %
Post by Rick Johnson
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
monopoly
Yeah, that works too.
my town is like that ,
only one of everything ,
one drug store , one food store ( ect )
Kevrob
2018-06-17 05:07:08 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by %
Post by Rick Johnson
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
monopoly
Yeah, that works too.
An irreplaceable resource on these shenanigans: Richard
Winger's Ballot Access News site.

http://ballot-access.org/

Kevin R
Rick Johnson
2018-06-17 15:09:10 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
An irreplaceable resource on these shenanigans: Richard
Winger's Ballot Access News site.
According to the second article, 2018 will be the first time in history that the LP party has saturated the midterm elections. Hmm. There may be hope after all. If only a glimmer...
Kevrob
2018-06-17 15:28:02 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Kevrob
An irreplaceable resource on these shenanigans: Richard
Winger's Ballot Access News site.
According to the second article, 2018 will be the first time in history that the LP party has saturated the midterm elections. Hmm. There may be hope after all. If only a glimmer...
I'd consider "saturation" to be having candidates contesting
all Congressional seats, or at least all seats without an
incumbent who is a stone lock to be re-elected. Having
a candidate in every Senatorial contest and Governor's race
might factor into such a judgement.

When I was active in LP politics in the 1980s and `90s,
getting a candidate on a statewide ballot for Treasurer
or Secretary of State could often garner enough votes
to guarantee ballot access for the following general
election or two. As Winger's site will show, there's
a wide variety of rules, differing from state to state.

Kevin R
Rick Johnson
2018-06-17 17:25:13 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
I'd consider "saturation" to be having candidates contesting
all Congressional seats,
Yes. Perhaps saturation was not the proper metaphor. A
"sprinkling of herbs", perhaps? ;-)
Alex W.
2018-06-17 02:07:02 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Alex W.
[...]
The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the
two big parties in the US [...] Between the two, they cover
pretty much the full spectrum of politics, leaving no room
for third parties to grow and establish themselves as a
genuine force.
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
Oh, genius can come in all sorts of flavours. Either way, it was a
brilliant tactic.
MarkA
2018-06-18 14:13:36 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Alex W.
[...]
The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the two big
parties in the US [...] Between the two, they cover pretty much the
full spectrum of politics, leaving no room for third parties to grow
and establish themselves as a genuine force.
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
Our system of counting votes, the "winner take all" approach, discourages
3rd parties. There are other voting systems, however, that don't have
that problem.
--
MarkA

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain
Rick Johnson
2018-06-18 18:49:09 UTC
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On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-5, MarkA wrote:
[...]
Post by MarkA
Our system of counting votes, the "winner take all" approach, discourages
3rd parties. There are other voting systems, however, that don't have
that problem.
I'm find myself wondering if it has been the political parties all along who are the _real_ problem? What happened to "by the people, of the people, and for the people"? I'll tell you what! It was nothing but fanciful lie which became mull-and-void the second corporations became people and money became speech. But isn't such simply the natural history of political parties? Was not the Patricians and the Plebeians simply a way for the ruling classes to maintain power over the people? And do we not suffer under the same disproportionate representation (if you can call it "representation"), today?

Thus, I find myself at odds with all political parties.
Alex W.
2018-06-19 01:14:17 UTC
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Post by MarkA
Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Alex W.
[...]
The other fact to consider is the particular genius of the two big
parties in the US [...] Between the two, they cover pretty much the
full spectrum of politics, leaving no room for third parties to grow
and establish themselves as a genuine force.
The word i would use here is diabolical, not genius.
Our system of counting votes, the "winner take all" approach, discourages
3rd parties. There are other voting systems, however, that don't have
that problem.
It is some of the problem, but not the sole cause.

The UK has a pure first past the post system, and Parliament has not
only three national parties but several others rooted in individual
states of the Union.

Alex W.
2018-06-15 00:36:37 UTC
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Post by Cloud Hobbit
Well written, Kevin. I was just thinking of the "man >of modest
means" decides to run for Congress. He is >dependent of donations
to his campaign, and is >unquestionable accountable to those with
deep pockets. >In short, every legislator in the house and Senate
is >corrupt.
->- Kit
I am convinced that as long as the government controls things it has
no business controlling that kind of corruption will continue.
All the government agencies with the control over so much practically invites corruption.
Government, particularly at the federal level, should focus on doing
things that help protect individual liberty.
I see very little justification for them doing anything else.
Problem is, even under your vision there will be plenty of scope for
lobbying, pork-barrelling and outright corruption. Defence of the
nation, for example, is undoubtedly part of the remit of any government,
and so there will always be financial quid-pro-quos on offer for
candidates seeking office from veterans' associations, districts with a
significant military presence and suppliers to the armed forces at every
level. How would you propose to stop that?
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 01:52:23 UTC
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[...]
Post by Alex W.
Problem is, even under your vision there will be plenty of scope for
lobbying, pork-barrelling and outright corruption. Defence of the
nation, for example, is undoubtedly part of the remit of any government,
and so there will always be financial quid-pro-quos on offer for
candidates seeking office from veterans' associations, districts with a
significant military presence and suppliers to the armed forces at every
level. How would you propose to stop that?
Let them aldonate their $1 then. It won't do much. And that's the point!
%
2018-06-15 01:54:16 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by Alex W.
Problem is, even under your vision there will be plenty of scope for
lobbying, pork-barrelling and outright corruption. Defence of the
nation, for example, is undoubtedly part of the remit of any government,
and so there will always be financial quid-pro-quos on offer for
candidates seeking office from veterans' associations, districts with a
significant military presence and suppliers to the armed forces at every
level. How would you propose to stop that?
Let them aldonate their $1 then. It won't do much. And that's the point!
you worry a lot about things you cannot change
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 01:58:27 UTC
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Post by %
Let them [donate] their $1 then. It won't do much. And that's the point!
you worry a lot about things you cannot change
What?

Me worry?

Nah!

But thanks for giving me the opportunity to fix my typo. :-)
%
2018-06-15 02:09:07 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
Post by %
Let them [donate] their $1 then. It won't do much. And that's the point!
you worry a lot about things you cannot change
What?
Me worry?
Nah!
But thanks for giving me the opportunity to fix my typo. :-)
see , you even worry about fixing typos
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 02:30:07 UTC
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[S]ee, you even worry about fixing typos[.]
Yep. Even when they're not mine! :-)
%
2018-06-15 02:36:02 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[S]ee, you even worry about fixing typos[.]
Yep. Even when they're not mine! :-)
that's a shaime
Alex W.
2018-06-15 06:26:52 UTC
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Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by Alex W.
Problem is, even under your vision there will be plenty of scope for
lobbying, pork-barrelling and outright corruption. Defence of the
nation, for example, is undoubtedly part of the remit of any government,
and so there will always be financial quid-pro-quos on offer for
candidates seeking office from veterans' associations, districts with a
significant military presence and suppliers to the armed forces at every
level. How would you propose to stop that?
Let them aldonate their $1 then. It won't do much. And that's the point!
Or consider an alternative: state funding.

Yes, I know, it's philosophically anathema, but just think about it.

Candidates would be free to use their own personal funds, but all
donations would be banned -- both cash money and indirect support.
Instead, candidates and parties would be paid, say, $1 per vote cast for
them. That would be the sum total of their campaign budget, paid after
the ballot. If you run for the post of municipal dog catcher in Woop
Woop, NJ, and you get 5,087 votes, then there will be a cheque for
$5,087 in the post for you. That, plus whatever you spent from your own
savings, would be all you can spend. And if you run for the presidency
of the nation and you get $40,000,001 votes, then that plus whatever you
can draw on personally would be the budget. No more fat war chests
stuffed with dodgy dollars. No more PACs running rings round campaign
contribution laws. No more elections bought by those with the deepest
pockets.
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 14:34:38 UTC
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On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 1:26:59 AM UTC-5, Alex W. wrote:
[...]
Or consider an alternative: state funding. Yes, I know,
it's philosophically anathema, but just think about it.
*GASPS* 8-O
Candidates would be free to use their own personal funds,
But how do you keep the fat cats -- the ones that have ten
or twenty million of disposable funds in the bank -- from
running the show? The point was raised previously in this
thread (the name escapes me now) that congress is rife with
millionaires -- and that shouldn't be the case.
but all donations would be banned -- both cash money and
indirect support. Instead, candidates and parties would be
paid, say, $1 per vote cast for them.
By who? The taxpayer? No. I can't get on board with that
idea. I would prefer that participation be voluntary. But we
seem to agree on the clamping of all donations to $1.
That would be the sum total of their campaign budget, paid
after the ballot. If you run for the post of municipal dog
catcher in Woop Woop, NJ, and you get 5,087 votes, then
there will be a cheque for $5,087 in the post for you.
The same will happen with my plan, the only difference is,
the supporters are making the donation, not the taxpayer.
That, plus whatever you spent from your own savings, would
be all you can spend. And if you run for the presidency of
the nation and you get $40,000,001 votes, then that plus
whatever you can draw on personally would be the budget. No
more fat war chests stuffed with dodgy dollars. No more
PACs running rings round campaign contribution laws. No
more elections bought by those with the deepest pockets.
Except, if you allow candidates to use an unlimited amount
of their _own_ money, you can't stop the super rich from
sucking up all the media attention and, in effect, buying
the election.

There is no good reason why a qualified candidate who has
$20 in the bank cannot compete with an unqualified candidate
who has, say, $20,000,000 in the bank. Our current system
encourages the _wrong_ cream to rise to the top. We want the
intellectual cream to rise to the top. Not the sleazy, greed
motivated cream.
Rick Johnson
2018-06-15 01:27:55 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Team A are jerks. Team B are jerks.
The question i, when will Team _C_ realize that Team C has a golden opportunity to do something wonderful with all the dissatisfied customers jumping ship from teams A and B?

PS: I didn't quote any of it, but i loved the rant, man. Bravo!
a***@gmail.com
2018-06-13 15:48:48 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Dishonest fake belief? That's the sort of accusation that can be thrown by anyone pretty much at anyone else. America is suffering an epidemic of psychobabble. Its what you *do* that counts.


Disputed
Preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.
Such expressions are widely attributed to Francis, but no published source has yet been located prior to the early 1990s. Variants include those listed below.
St. Francis reportedly said, "Preach Jesus, and if necessary use words."
The Strong Family (1991) by Chuck Swindoll, p.9 (Insight For Living)
Witness for Christ each day, and if necessary use words.
Conspiracy of Kindness : A Refreshing New Approach to Sharing the Love of Jesus With Others (1993) by Steve Sjogren, p. 120.
Always remember to preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.
The Short-Term Missions Boom : A Guide to International and Domestic Involvement (1994) edited by Michael J. Anthony, p. 38.
Wherever you go, preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.
What They Don't Always Teach You at a Christian College (1995) by Keith Anderson, p. 185.
Share the gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words
The Basics of Life (1998) by Andy Chrisman, Kirk Sullivan, Mark Harris and Marty Magehee.
Go into all the world and preach the gospel, and, if necessary, use words.
The Boomerang Mandate : Returning the Ministry to the People of God (1999) by Jim L. Wilson and Tom Stringfellow, p. 70.
Do all you can to preach the gospel and if necessary use words!
The Lord is my Shepherd (1999) by Alf Droy, p. 84.
Preach often, and if necessary, use words
This Is Your Time : Make Every Moment Count (2000) by Michael Whitaker Smith and Gary Lee Thomas, p. 93.
Preach the gospel always and if necessary, use words.
Cease Fire, the War Is Over! (2005) by Eric Bumpus and Tim Moranville, p. 88
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi
duke
2018-06-13 22:41:46 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
v***@gmail.com
2018-06-14 04:37:50 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
2018-06-14 08:02:05 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.

By the way, you might consider actually reading the article. Christopher
didn't write it.
v***@gmail.com
2018-06-14 08:31:04 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
Nope. I have atheist friends. I hate him and you because you are stupid liars.
TT Liams
2018-06-14 21:45:20 UTC
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On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 1:02:08 AM UTC-7,
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 12:37:53 AM UTC-4,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by John Locke
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-bel
ief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Post by v***@gmail.com
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas
through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap -
including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an
atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
Nope. I have atheist friends. I hate him and you because you are stupid liars.
No there not! You & Earl are the only liar's!!!!!!
hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
2018-06-18 00:28:47 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
Nope. I have atheist friends. I hate him and you because you are stupid liars.
No atheist would befriend you.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-18 04:49:58 UTC
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:28:47 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
Nope. I have atheist friends. I hate him and you because you are stupid liars.
No atheist would befriend you.
He's insane.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-06-14 10:07:07 UTC
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
By the way, you might consider actually reading the article. Christopher
didn't write it.
Mad Joe hates everybody, even himself. Our atheism just gives him an
excuse he can hide behind.
v***@gmail.com
2018-06-15 00:55:19 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
By the way, you might consider actually reading the article. Christopher
didn't write it.
Mad Joe hates everybody, even himself. Our atheism just gives him an
excuse he can hide behind.
Show us evidence that I hate Duke, % and Kurt.
TT Liams
2018-06-15 01:45:23 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 12:37:53 AM UTC-4,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by John Locke
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True
American and you
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by John Locke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-bel
ief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by v***@gmail.com
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas
through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap -
including the ideas
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
By the way, you might consider actually reading the article. Christopher
didn't write it.
Mad Joe hates everybody, even himself. Our atheism just gives him an
excuse he can hide behind.
Show us evidence that I hate Duke, % and Kurt.
You only hate smart ppl cause your jealous!!!
%
2018-06-15 01:49:22 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 3:07:18 AM UTC-7, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 12:37:53 AM UTC-4,
Post by John Locke
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True
American and you
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by John Locke
can get away with anything. > >> > > >> > Lots of bullshit.
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-bel
ief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by John Locke
Post by v***@gmail.com
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas
through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap -
including the ideas
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an
atheist,
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
By the way, you might consider actually reading the article.
Christopher
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
didn't write it.
Mad Joe hates everybody, even himself. Our atheism just gives him
an
Post by Christopher A. Lee
excuse he can hide behind.
Show us evidence that I hate Duke, % and Kurt.
You only hate smart ppl cause your jealous!!!
i guess you'll be safe then
v***@gmail.com
2018-06-15 01:15:16 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT), "hypatiab7(hypatiab7)"
Post by hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
If Christopher put together a book of the most important ideas through out history, you'd call everything included in it crap - including the ideas
you agree with. You simply hate Christopher because he is an atheist,
thereby showing your own smallmindedness.
By the way, you might consider actually reading the article. Christopher
didn't write it.
Mad Joe hates everybody, even himself. Our atheism just gives him an
excuse he can hide behind.
You are the one hiding behind a killfile.
TT Liams
2018-06-14 13:39:05 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by John Locke
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:42:27 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-bel
ief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Post by Christopher A. Lee
It's typical Lee fantasy crap.
Your just typical crap lol
hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
2018-06-14 07:39:28 UTC
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Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Lots of bullshit.
You didn't read it. You're reacting to our reactions.
Post by duke
Post by Christopher A. Lee
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
hypatiab7(hypatiab7)
2018-06-14 07:36:27 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
Most of our invading theist trolls are what I consider to be false
believers. They push their so-called beliefs on others while not
bothering to follow them themselves. They try to look sincere so
they'll be accepted in their chosen group, but expect others to do
what they don't do themselves.

Some trolls don't believe at all and have no real control over
their own lives. To make up for this, they try to control or
frighten people in newsgroups who disagree with whatever religious
belief they push. They are many possible explanations for such
behavior - narcissism, autism, some other form of mental illness.
This even explains annoyance trolls. Realizing that the real point
of most religions is to convince people that they are sinful bits
of nothing so they can be easily controlled by their religious
leaders, most of the atheists in alt.atheism understand that most
theist trolls are victims of their upbringing or lack of education.
The trolls that don't want to know this, don't bother checking
anything out or even dare to think about it.

This article will have them howling, poor messed up critters.
duke
2018-06-17 15:06:55 UTC
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Post by Christopher A. Lee
Just call yourself a Christian, a patriot or a True American and you
can get away with anything.
What can I get away with???
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Full article at...
https://www.alternet.org/america-suffering-epidemic-dishonest-fake-belief-promoted-people-who-took-over-gop
the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
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