Discussion:
How can we find hope in atheism?
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Jahnu
2018-05-24 00:52:52 UTC
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We can’t.

In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.

All you can hope for in atheism is a better standard of life, better
sense-gratification.

In modern life everyone is conditioned and indoctrinated into thinking
that they are the enjoyers, and that they can be happy by gratifying
the bodily senses. In fact, there are no other goals in the global
culture except growing up, getting an education, in order to get a job
to make money so you can spend it. There is nothing beyond that. How
hopeless is that?

It may seem ok for the successful people, who, due to their good
karma, are getting their desires fulfilled, but for the vast scores of
people who live in poverty and need, how is it beneficial to tell them
that this life is the only chance you'll ever get to have your desires
fulfilled? After that - nothing.

Or like the Church tells you - too bad, God cast you down into a life
of poverty and misery, while He cast another person down into a life
in fame and glory. It's a hopeless world-view, whichever way you look
at it, and it conditions people to a life of misery and
disappointment.

Krishna says:

One who restrains his senses, keeping them under full control, and
fixes his consciousness upon Me, is known as a man of steady
intelligence. —Bg 2.61

While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops
attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from
lust anger arises. Bg — 2.62

From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment
of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when
intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool. — Bg
2.63

But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to
control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain
the complete mercy of the Lord. —Bg 2.64

For one thus satisfied [in Krishna consciousness], the threefold
miseries of material existence exist no longer; in such satisfied
consciousness, one’s intelligence is soon well established.— Bg 2.65
https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das


StanFast
2018-05-24 01:19:30 UTC
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We can’t.
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age
unless they get a disease they haven't been able to cure




and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All you can hope for in atheism is a better standard of life, better
sense-gratification.
In modern life everyone is conditioned and indoctrinated into thinking
that they are the enjoyers, and that they can be happy by gratifying
the bodily senses. In fact, there are no other goals in the global
culture except growing up, getting an education, in order to get a job
to make money so you can spend it. There is nothing beyond that. How
hopeless is that?
It may seem ok for the successful people, who, due to their good
karma, are getting their desires fulfilled, but for the vast scores of
people who live in poverty and need, how is it beneficial to tell them
that this life is the only chance you'll ever get to have your desires
fulfilled? After that - nothing.
Or like the Church tells you - too bad, God cast you down into a life
of poverty and misery, while He cast another person down into a life
in fame and glory. It's a hopeless world-view, whichever way you look
at it, and it conditions people to a life of misery and
disappointment.
One who restrains his senses, keeping them under full control, and
fixes his consciousness upon Me, is known as a man of steady
intelligence. —Bg 2.61
While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops
attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from
lust anger arises. Bg — 2.62
From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment
of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when
intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool. — Bg
2.63
But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to
control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain
the complete mercy of the Lord. —Bg 2.64
For one thus satisfied [in Krishna consciousness], the threefold
miseries of material existence exist no longer; in such satisfied
consciousness, one’s intelligence is soon well established.— Bg 2.65
https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch
https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM
Cloud Hobbit
2018-05-24 01:56:22 UTC
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No hope for imaginary gods or miracles.

Just reality.
Alex W.
2018-05-24 06:40:48 UTC
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Post by Cloud Hobbit
No hope for imaginary gods or miracles.
Just reality.
Who needs hope when they can have reasonable expectation?

Science and its daughter has delivered unto us health, wealth and old
age. It has helped us to devise ways for creating stable and secure
political and social systems which give us security in our persons and
property. It has created ways for us to use our talents and ambitions
in all our chosen areas of endeavour. It has given us answers and
solutions to age-old problems. Our lives are immeasurably easier and
better in all conceivable ways because of science and technology.

In short, that science bird in the hand is far, far better than the wild
promise of flocks of birds of paradise in the bush.
John Locke
2018-05-24 13:02:22 UTC
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Post by Alex W.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
No hope for imaginary gods or miracles.
Just reality.
Who needs hope when they can have reasonable expectation?
Science and its daughter has delivered unto us health, wealth and old
age. It has helped us to devise ways for creating stable and secure
political and social systems which give us security in our persons and
property. It has created ways for us to use our talents and ambitions
in all our chosen areas of endeavour. It has given us answers and
solutions to age-old problems. Our lives are immeasurably easier and
better in all conceivable ways because of science and technology.
In short, that science bird in the hand is far, far better than the wild
promise of flocks of birds of paradise in the bush.
..theists will never understand. Nature is indifferent. It's up to us
humans to improve the quality of life..not some stinking, imaginary
god.
StanFast
2018-05-24 13:09:32 UTC
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Post by John Locke
Post by Alex W.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
No hope for imaginary gods or miracles.
Just reality.
Who needs hope when they can have reasonable expectation?
Science and its daughter has delivered unto us health, wealth and old
age. It has helped us to devise ways for creating stable and secure
political and social systems which give us security in our persons and
property. It has created ways for us to use our talents and ambitions
in all our chosen areas of endeavour. It has given us answers and
solutions to age-old problems. Our lives are immeasurably easier and
better in all conceivable ways because of science and technology.
In short, that science bird in the hand is far, far better than the wild
promise of flocks of birds of paradise in the bush.
..theists will never understand. Nature is indifferent. It's up to us
humans to improve the quality of life..
You have yet to prove to my satisfaction you are one of those
Malcolm McMahon
2018-05-24 08:20:38 UTC
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We can’t.
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
Atheism isn't a choice: It's a conclusion. To us whether atheism makes you happy just isn't the issue.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-05-24 08:23:45 UTC
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On Thu, 24 May 2018 01:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Jahnu
We can’t.
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
Atheism isn't a choice: It's a conclusion. To us whether atheism makes
you happy just isn't the issue.
The certifiably insane Jesper does this deliberately. He's been
obsessed with us for donkey's years.
default
2018-05-24 15:28:35 UTC
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On Thu, 24 May 2018 01:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Jahnu
We can’t.
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
Atheism isn't a choice: It's a conclusion. To us whether atheism makes you happy just isn't the issue.
Well it does clean out some of the cobwebs and gives happiness a
higher probability by avoiding delusional religionist pit falls like
guilt, nonsensical rules, and running around trying to please mythical
egotistical deities.

Think of it as a prophylaxis. It isn't a cure, but it keeps the
disease at bay.
Yap Honghor
2018-05-24 09:56:05 UTC
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We can’t.
Moron..."hope" is a word of anticipation without any basis at all.
You can always substitute "faith" in its place and therefore has no fact to look forward to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All you theists want to do is to provide nothing, conning people in hope!
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All you can hope for in atheism is a better standard of life, better
sense-gratification.
In modern life everyone is conditioned and indoctrinated into thinking
that they are the enjoyers, and that they can be happy by gratifying
the bodily senses. In fact, there are no other goals in the global
culture except growing up, getting an education, in order to get a job
to make money so you can spend it. There is nothing beyond that. How
hopeless is that?
It may seem ok for the successful people, who, due to their good
karma, are getting their desires fulfilled, but for the vast scores of
people who live in poverty and need, how is it beneficial to tell them
that this life is the only chance you'll ever get to have your desires
fulfilled? After that - nothing.
Or like the Church tells you - too bad, God cast you down into a life
of poverty and misery, while He cast another person down into a life
in fame and glory. It's a hopeless world-view, whichever way you look
at it, and it conditions people to a life of misery and
disappointment.
One who restrains his senses, keeping them under full control, and
fixes his consciousness upon Me, is known as a man of steady
intelligence. —Bg 2.61
While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops
attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from
lust anger arises. Bg — 2.62
From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment
of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when
intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool. — Bg
2.63
But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to
control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain
the complete mercy of the Lord. —Bg 2.64
For one thus satisfied [in Krishna consciousness], the threefold
miseries of material existence exist no longer; in such satisfied
consciousness, one’s intelligence is soon well established.— Bg 2.65
https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch
https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM
MarkA
2018-05-24 12:51:26 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
We can’t.
How can we find hope in the idea that we are but pawns in some cosmic
game of which we have no knowledge or control?

We can't.

QED
--
MarkA

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain
StanFast
2018-05-24 12:56:18 UTC
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Post by MarkA
We can’t.
How can we find hope in the idea that we are but pawns in some cosmic
game of which we have no knowledge
Speak for yourself
default
2018-05-24 15:29:28 UTC
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On Thu, 24 May 2018 05:56:18 -0700 (PDT), StanFast
Post by StanFast
Post by MarkA
Post by Jahnu
We can’t.
How can we find hope in the idea that we are but pawns in some cosmic
game of which we have no knowledge
Speak for yourself
The pawn that roared?
default
2018-05-24 15:21:11 UTC
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Post by Jahnu
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All anyone has is old age and death, and that's if you lucky enough to
stay alive. Hope, happiness, a fulfilling life, are your
responsibility.

The destination, old age and death in this case, is not important. The
journey and the life are what is important. Crackpot religions are
just there to garner money and power, not to enlighten or to make the
journey more rewarding.
aaa
2018-05-24 17:52:16 UTC
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Post by default
Post by Jahnu
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All anyone has is old age and death, and that's if you lucky enough to
stay alive. Hope, happiness, a fulfilling life, are your
responsibility.
That's the same as saying nothing. What's not your responsibility?
Post by default
The destination, old age and death in this case, is not important. The
journey and the life are what is important. Crackpot religions are
just there to garner money and power, not to enlighten or to make the
journey more rewarding.
What life and what journey? If there is no God and the truth of God,
everything will be relative, and nothing is worth to pursue in life. So
where does this journey go exactly?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
default
2018-05-24 19:53:55 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by default
Post by Jahnu
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All anyone has is old age and death, and that's if you lucky enough to
stay alive. Hope, happiness, a fulfilling life, are your
responsibility.
That's the same as saying nothing. What's not your responsibility?
It is your responsibility is what I just said. It is you religious
yoyo's who like to pretend that god is in charge, and has ultimate
responsibility.
Post by aaa
Post by default
The destination, old age and death in this case, is not important. The
journey and the life are what is important. Crackpot religions are
just there to garner money and power, not to enlighten or to make the
journey more rewarding.
What life and what journey? If there is no God and the truth of God,
everything will be relative, and nothing is worth to pursue in life. So
where does this journey go exactly?
The ultimate end is not important, how you got there and what you
learned is.

You've convinced yourself that there's some mysterious invisible
honcho who you must please; and if you do things just right you get
rewarded, I'm saying that life is reward enough.

There's no mysterious paranormal force or person, but there are plenty
of men who control people like you with promises of an "after"life.

You deserve pity, even if you can't see it.
aaa
2018-05-25 02:18:17 UTC
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Post by default
Post by aaa
Post by default
Post by Jahnu
In atheism, all one has to look forward to is old age and death. What
or where is the hope? I can’t even imagine a world-view more hopeless
than atheism.
All anyone has is old age and death, and that's if you lucky enough to
stay alive. Hope, happiness, a fulfilling life, are your
responsibility.
That's the same as saying nothing. What's not your responsibility?
It is your responsibility is what I just said. It is you religious
yoyo's who like to pretend that god is in charge, and has ultimate
responsibility.
Not exactly. God is the ultimate justice we can rely on. That does not
mean believers have no responsibility. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm
just pointing out that you haven't said anything everybody doesn't
already know.
Post by default
Post by aaa
Post by default
The destination, old age and death in this case, is not important. The
journey and the life are what is important. Crackpot religions are
just there to garner money and power, not to enlighten or to make the
journey more rewarding.
What life and what journey? If there is no God and the truth of God,
everything will be relative, and nothing is worth to pursue in life. So
where does this journey go exactly?
The ultimate end is not important, how you got there and what you
learned is.
Where? Where is this ultimate end you are talking about? You have no God
and no heaven. Where exactly are you going?
Post by default
You've convinced yourself that there's some mysterious invisible
honcho who you must please; and if you do things just right you get
rewarded, I'm saying that life is reward enough.
If life is already the reward, why are you still going somewhere? Does
that mean you don't like your reward?
Post by default
There's no mysterious paranormal force or person, but there are plenty
of men who control people like you with promises of an "after"life.
I'm under nobody's control. I follow God all by myself.
Post by default
You deserve pity, even if you can't see it.
I have no problem with that. This suffering life isn't exactly what I
wanted, but thanks to God, I can still make the best of it despite what
happened. To me, that is enough for me to have new found hope in the
morning. This is why God is so important to me personally.

Does that look like pity to you?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
c***@optonline.net
2018-05-24 19:12:21 UTC
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It's not about finding some imagined hope, it's about sane rational
thinking !
%
2018-05-24 19:16:00 UTC
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Post by c***@optonline.net
It's not about finding some imagined hope, it's about sane rational
thinking !
no it isn't everything is about what i say
aaa
2018-05-25 00:40:53 UTC
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Post by c***@optonline.net
It's not about finding some imagined hope, it's about sane rational
thinking !
How does thinking help living when there is no hope? If it's no way of
living, what's the point of thinking?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
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