Discussion:
Can people choose their beliefs?
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Michael Cole
2018-04-02 14:36:23 UTC
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I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Greywolf
2018-04-02 15:09:51 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
_____________

I've come to the conclusion that fervent theists don't WANT to know the truth. They WANT to believe what makes them feel content with the world and "righteous." Religion is nothing more than a psychological "crutch" for most of them. But they don't even realize that.

A strange thing: I've always respected the writing of the great Catholic theologian and bible scholar, Robert E. Brown. He's admitted to any *number* of errors in the NT. But I'd bet that if he were to be put in front of a firing squad and told to either denounce his Christian faith or die, he'd more than likely say, "Fire away!"

Some people find it just impossible to accept that there's no Divinity of any sort. They just can't accept it.

That would be fine, if only they'd recognize that they're hopelessly close-minded, and so, stay out of alt.atheism. There's NOTHING that's going to convince them that they're wrong. So what's their point in staying here?
Michael Cole
2018-04-02 15:28:51 UTC
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I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-02 16:10:36 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
I agree. The English word "belief," in the sense of a world view, denotes a well-formed mental state. The brain is colonized by a belief and the associations are too extensive and complex to come fully under the control of the casual and deliberate act of "choosing."
Greywolf
2018-04-02 16:38:07 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
_______

I think most of us would just *bristle* at the thought that two and two = five. It's as an offensive thought as all get out. But you're onto something when you suggest the possibility of just choosing what to believe simply to make oneself feel happier.

That's what belief in a God, a God that not a single individual on planet earth can provide irrefutable evidence for is all about. It should be said that their belief is *just* a belief and leave sleeping dogs lie. To insist their belief is based on reality turns their belief into nothing more than a lie.
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:09:59 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
Others find something that they think makes sense and stop looking. For all
they know, they could have found something they'd feel makes more sense. I
ha a friend who is similar to this. She finds some kind of religious belief
she likes and gives her all. Then, she finds something else she likes more
and changes to that. She's been through five religions in the years I've
known her - Judaism, Madame Blavatsky, Buddhism, Hinduism and some woman
whose name I can't remember. No, she is NOT interested in Christianity.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who actually did this and became Jewish. Two other friends who had been Catholic gradually became Deists. Only one friend actually became a Christian - High Church of
England. She said that she would have converted to Catholicism but didn't
like the way the Roman Catholic Church treated women.
Siri Cruise
2018-04-06 21:52:49 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Melzzzzz
2018-04-06 22:02:27 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Not necessarily. I switched to atheist when I was 41.
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
Yap Honghor
2018-04-06 23:49:34 UTC
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Post by Melzzzzz
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Not necessarily. I switched to atheist when I was 41.
It was not too old to switch.
You have a happier life and do not need to defend the evil pixie.
Post by Melzzzzz
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
duke
2018-04-07 17:59:24 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Correction: It's the lack of an active brain in operation.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
aaa
2018-04-02 19:57:13 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Deng Qi Feng
2018-04-02 20:19:26 UTC
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Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
aaa
2018-04-02 21:35:54 UTC
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Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 02:28:40 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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%
2018-04-03 02:32:03 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
into what piss and vinegar
aaa
2018-04-03 16:46:31 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 23:43:25 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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hypatiab7
2018-04-04 06:50:23 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:12:53 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
I thought we are boycotting this stupid moron for at least a month?
Post by Smiler
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
---
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hypatiab7
2018-04-08 17:55:19 UTC
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Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
I thought we are boycotting this stupid moron for at least a month?
Post by Smiler
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Each one of us chose different methods from totally ignoring certain trolls
to only responding to certain trolls if they ever seemed to make some kind of sense. I tried that with John McCoy and it didn't work, so I'm now ignoring him. The same with Jtem.
hypatiab7
2018-04-04 06:49:32 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Post by aaa
Changing to what exactly?
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Don Martin
2018-04-04 22:08:47 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
!! Atheist ------------------------------
2018-04-05 16:27:39 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Replaced is changing, dickhead.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is *THE* foundation of Christianity.
Sycophant: a compulsive ass-kisser of un-evidenced dictator god.
hypatiab7
2018-04-08 16:26:13 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I should
have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Don Martin
2018-04-08 18:35:38 UTC
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On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I should
have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-09 02:08:01 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
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Kevrob
2018-04-09 03:15:42 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
--
You can't "eat your heart out" anymore, though. :)

Kevin R

Smiler
2018-04-09 02:00:27 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 22:51:15 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Gospel TT
2018-04-05 01:34:40 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Lol your such a rumdum lol heart's pump blood, rumdum lol.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-05 12:57:27 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
But blood is the _actual_ content of your heart, though feelings can affect your heart rate. He needs to be reminded that the idea of feelings being in the heart is poetic metaphor.

The only feeling your heart is capable of is pain when its under strain.

Feelings, it's now perfectly clear, are a product of the paleocortex.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 20:36:51 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
But blood is the _actual_ content of your heart, though feelings can affect your heart rate. He needs to be reminded that the idea of feelings being in the heart is poetic metaphor.
The only feeling your heart is capable of is pain when its under strain.
Feelings, it's now perfectly clear, are a product of the paleocortex.
Of course I meant what I said in the literary poetic sense. However, that was what aaa meant and I was paraphrasing him.
Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:24:37 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Idiot....if our heart or feeling never change, there will be no single divorce in America. Fuck, you really don't know much, do you?
Gospel TT
2018-04-05 23:26:27 UTC
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On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Yap Honghor
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never
changes.
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid
motherfucker..
Post by Yap Honghor
Idiot....if our heart or feeling never change, there will be no
single divorce in America. Fuck, you really don't know much, do you?

He's a rumdum that don't no heart's pump blood.
hypatiab7
2018-04-08 16:55:25 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Will you please stop comparing me to you.
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 01:05:26 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
Tell that to my ex-wife.



(j/k not really divorced)
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-04 09:39:07 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
Hopefully it changes about 60 times a minute.
Kevrob
2018-04-02 22:09:01 UTC
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Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
Having had a strict Catholic upbringing, and having had many a late
night bull session with fellow students at my Catholic college, I ran
into people who didn't believe, but really wanted to. They doubled-down
on the ritual, hoping they'd get inspired by the Holy Ghost/Spirit. They
read books about converts, and how they "saw the light." They took the
required theology courses seriously. Some of them did such a good job
that they were able to throttle their doubts, and at least fake belief.

I was pretty much a believer until I fell ill, had to leave school for
a while, and enter the job market. I returned to college after a while
and completed my last year's worth of courses 3 semesters, two
done part-time, and one full-time. During my hiatus, I had deprogrammed
myself from religion, and stopped attending church. The arguments I
had with my parents about that last were brutal, and as soon as I could
move out and live on my own, I did. The premises underlying belief
had collapsed for me, and all the logical superstructure piled on top -
and there was plenty, from Augustinian neo-Platonism* to Anselm to
Whitehead (and, yeah, we studied all that in school, and I wasn't
earning either a theology major or minor). It stopped making sense.

Now, while out of school, I read many works based on philosophical
naturalism, so I began to realize that ghodz were not needed to explain
the world. Many folks never adopt that mindset, even provisionally.
Scientists share in it, but some use the "this is how we do it in
the lab, but in the rest of my life, I will allow the fables to govern"
rule.

We have that not unusual fellow, who doesn't ascribe to an official
religion, but treats them all like the cliche Chinese restaurant menu,
grabbing one dogma from column A and another from column B, making up
his own "spiritual, but not religious" grab-bag. No matter that there
is no philosophical coherence.

Deng's query about whether this is the result of free will or
determinism is on point, though. If we are all fated to believe
what we believe, or to eschew belief, there's no moral worth to
taking any position, and no point in discussing it.

Kevin R
Kevrob
2018-04-02 22:11:40 UTC
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.....Augustinian neo-Platonism*
Notice, this phrase...


[rot-13]

Gur tebhc unf orra znexrqyl serr bs gung gebyy, Qhapna, yngryl.
V ubcr ur qvqa'g snyy naq oernx uvf uvc va zber guna svir cynprf.

[/rot-13]

Kevin R
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:17:02 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
.....Augustinian neo-Platonism*
Notice, this phrase...
[rot-13]
Gur tebhc unf orra znexrqyl serr bs gung gebyy, Qhapna, yngryl.
V ubcr ur qvqa'g snyy naq oernx uvf uvc va zber guna svir cynprf.
Four at least.
Post by Kevrob
[/rot-13]
MattB
2018-04-02 22:21:04 UTC
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On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT), Deng Qi Feng
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
That is true to a point if I go up the mountain and read in peace my
mood improves. No belief required.
Greywolf
2018-04-02 22:19:35 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
______________

Should I puke now, or later?
aaa
2018-04-02 23:04:46 UTC
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Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
______________
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 02:34:38 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
aaa
2018-04-03 16:52:08 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 23:45:47 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense
I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I
can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems
true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or
I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do
otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in
the teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of
Christ. They don't have to specifically state that it's the love
from the bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ.
We make all kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love
for the pure spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would
hide within ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
Thanks for the admission that you're only an insane troll and don't believe
the nonsense you write.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 03:46:06 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.

You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-05 13:26:04 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.

Congratulations. Your friends at Stormfront have trained you well.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 20:38:10 UTC
Reply
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Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-05 22:55:35 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Child's play. The post I responded to is a good example of your typical bullshit when you discuss atheists:

"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."

No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.

Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!

You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-06 02:11:13 UTC
Reply
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Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.

Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-06 07:00:39 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.

Since they are so easy to find I will humor you with a couple more:

"Correcting an atheist is an exercise in futility for several reasons:

1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"

From: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ

Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.

"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"

Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z

No again, bigot.

And the beat goes on . . .
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-06 23:57:20 UTC
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Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.
1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"
From: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ
Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.
"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"
Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z
No again, bigot.
And the beat goes on . . .
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
Street
2018-04-07 00:05:32 UTC
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Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
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Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do
it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying
bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Child's play. The post I responded to is a good example of your
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do
it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a
class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of
experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen
the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing
some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.
1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ
Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.
"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"
Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z
No again, bigot.
And the beat goes on . . .
ROTFL! I'm a stupid asshole!
True.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-07 01:43:15 UTC
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ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________

How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?

Still adjusting the dose?

How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
Street
2018-04-07 02:15:50 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
LOL! :)
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-07 11:49:44 UTC
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ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
Street
2018-04-07 13:32:38 UTC
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ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
ArtyJoe's pizza recipe proves he eats shit:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-07 16:21:28 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
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ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
The average turd is more valuable than you are.
Street
2018-04-07 16:48:20 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Street
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
The average turd is more valuable than you are.
Of course it is, for you. For you, it's food. But we normals consider that
to be disgusting, ArtyJoe.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-09 01:39:13 UTC
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ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
I don't take any.
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:18:15 UTC
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Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
______________
Should I puke now, or later?
Get it over with. You'll feel better.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-04 09:31:44 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.

But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.

There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
Kevrob
2018-04-04 11:46:17 UTC
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Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.

Consider our troll, Jesper. He tells us he bounced from
Lutheran to Buddhist to Mormon before settling on the Krishnas.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Have you heard of the cult-recruitment technique called
"love-bombing?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing

For a lot of "seekers," it may not be a matter of
"finding the truth" as much as it is finding a social
group where you feel welcomed and comfortable.
Once they've set that hook in you, people can
rationalize any belief.

I don't doubt that, when I was deciding to drop Catholicism,
the fact that I had a network of fellow fans of science fiction and
punk/new wave music, and folks interested in libertarian politics
to crash with and hang out with, help me get a job and basically be
a "substitute family" until I could get on my feet helped me. In my
case, it was "change my mind, then figure out new living arrangements,"
rather than "fall in love with a religious girl and convert" or some
other social benefit tempting me.

Now, if you ditch faith as a fully formed, employed adult, you
might not have to scramble for a place to live, as I did. Note:
my parents didn't kick me out. I just couldn't put up with
their daily disapproval, and I was living with them 2,000 miles
away from where I wanted to finish college. So I packed up one
weekend after giving notice at my job and caught a plane - you
could just start to get cheap fares in the late 1970s.

A fellow fan put me up until I could find a job and an apartment,
which I shared with another fan. I lived in a series of "slan
shacks" for a few years, until we could afford our own places.
Nobody cared if you were unconventional. Hell, we liked you
better if you were a geek or a weirdo. :) Life was interesting.
a couple of my buddies started a comics shop, where we hung out
and filled in behind the counter as needed. We went to SF and
comics conventions, and especially at the SF cons we were
surrounded by people who took a rational approach to the universe
to a much greater extent than in the "mundane" world. A similar
dynamic existed when I got involved in libertarian politics.
some of my friends and allies were religious, running the gamut
from Catholics to Unitarian Universalists to Taoists, but nobody
expected you to agree with you about religion, and, probably because
most had at least heard of Ayn Rand, didn't assume non-believers were
necessarily moral monsters, but might be committed to ethical behavior.

I imagine their might be similar acceptance of rationalism among
our socialist counterparts, while the actual communists would
look askance at any religious belief.

Kevin R
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 23:20:41 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.

I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.

I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
Kevrob
2018-04-05 01:43:48 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.

You are indistinguishable from Niu Nian, our "aaa" troll.

How hard did you hit _your_ head?

Kevin R
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 02:37:12 UTC
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Post by Kevrob
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.
Is that so? Let me tell you something. God only talks to those who believe in Him. It's obvious that even tho you were raised Catholic, you never believed in Him. What you did years ago was practice deceit by
pretending to be a Catholic. You violated one of the Ten Commandments which forbids lying.

Now, you are practicing deceit again just like all the other scumbag atheists do. You distort the FAQ rules for AA and falsely accuse people of proselytizing when they are doing no such thing. You label sincere posters as
"trolls" which is nonsense. A troll means only people who post for the sole purpose of starting fights and getting people upset.

After seeing you in action here, I wouldn't trust you to take out the garbage or give me the right time.

If we are ever in the same room, I will be careful never to turn my back on you.

You should never fear that I will try and convert you to Judaism.
We don't want you.
Kevrob
2018-04-05 03:26:03 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.
Is that so? Let me tell you something. God only talks to those who believe in Him.
Nice circular "reasoning," there.

Did Moses believe in Yahooey, before he saw that burning bush?
He was raised Egyptian, and they were polytheists, except for that
short enthusiasm for Aton.
Post by v***@gmail.com
It's obvious that even tho you were raised Catholic, you never believed in Him. What you did years ago was practice deceit by
pretending to be a Catholic. You violated one of the Ten Commandments which forbids lying.
Or, I was a kid buying what his parents and teachers were pushing,
until he grew up.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Now, you are practicing deceit again just like all the other scumbag atheists do. You distort the FAQ rules for AA and falsely accuse people of proselytizing when they are doing no such thing.
Nonsense. You aren't trying to recruit new Jews. You do seem to
be trying to make a more general case for goyin to pick a theism.
Post by v***@gmail.com
You label sincere posters as "trolls" which is nonsense.
Sincerity has nothing to do with it. Some trolls are
completely sincere. Torquemada may have been sincere.
Post by v***@gmail.com
A troll means only people who post for the sole purpose of starting fights and getting people upset.
You post for those reasons, perhaps not solely.

Kevin R
Alex W.
2018-04-03 02:11:57 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".

We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.

So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
MarkA
2018-04-03 13:08:47 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe
the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether
we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be
able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to
believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe
it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I
don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
99% of what our brains do is subconscious, and beyond our control. Our
conscious/rational mind is mostly occupied with coming up for reasons for
the decisions our "lizard brain" has already made. Religion is probably
the most clear example of that.

My wife is Catholic, and I go to church with her twice a year, on
Christmas and Easter. The other day, as I sat there, listening to the
priest talk about love and forgiveness and mercy and compassion, it was
clear they are trying to talk themselves into behaviors that their
rational minds find virtuous, but their lizard brains won't allow.
Throughout history, people have never done violence to each other with
such glee as they do when they are motivated by their religion.
--
MarkA

Believing with 100% certainty does not mean you've found truth. It
means you've stopped looking for it. -- Bill Flavell
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 01:06:58 UTC
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Post by MarkA
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe
the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether
we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be
able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to
believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe
it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I
don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
99% of what our brains do is subconscious, and beyond our control.
Doubt it.
Post by MarkA
Our
conscious/rational mind is mostly occupied with coming up for reasons for
the decisions our "lizard brain" has already made. Religion is probably
the most clear example of that.
My wife is Catholic, and I go to church with her twice a year, on
Christmas and Easter. The other day, as I sat there, listening to the
priest talk about love and forgiveness and mercy and compassion, it was
clear they are trying to talk themselves into behaviors that their
rational minds find virtuous, but their lizard brains won't allow.
Throughout history, people have never done violence to each other with
such glee as they do when they are motivated by their religion.
--
MarkA
Believing with 100% certainty does not mean you've found truth. It
means you've stopped looking for it. -- Bill Flavell
Michael Cole
2018-04-04 02:47:06 UTC
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Many people on this thread have pointed out that our thinking is complex and is affected by psychological factors. That I get. Who knows. Perhaps even a rational guy like has biased judgement. Perhaps psychological issues affect my understanding of reality. If so, my biases
are subconscious issues. I understand that we are not as objective as we think we are and we try to be. What I DON'T understand is how anybody can consciously and deliberately choose what to believe for emotional reasons. That seems insane to me.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 20:17:01 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Theists certainly can choose their beliefs. People convert to different religions all the time. What Christians believe is completely different from what Moslems or Hindus believe. Jews and Christians share some beliefs, but the differences between the two religions are striking and the rituals are totally different. Jews, Christians and Moslems don't share any holidays at all. Jewish prayers are written in Hebrew. Moslem prayers are in Arabic. Christian prayers are in English these days.

When I turned 40, I decided to investigate different religions. I checked out Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. After a year, it became glaringly obvious that Judaism is the only one for me. It's the only one that makes sense to me and the only one that satisfies me emotionally.
Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:22:00 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Theists certainly can choose their beliefs. People convert to different religions all the time. What Christians believe is completely different from what Moslems or Hindus believe. Jews and Christians share some beliefs, but the differences between the two religions are striking and the rituals are totally different. Jews, Christians and Moslems don't share any holidays at all. Jewish prayers are written in Hebrew. Moslem prayers are in Arabic. Christian prayers are in English these days.
When I turned 40, I decided to investigate different religions. I checked out Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. After a year, it became glaringly obvious that Judaism is the only one for me. It's the only one that makes sense to me and the only one that satisfies me emotionally.
That is not the truth....
If Christianity inherited and eliminated the rubbish in Judaism, how could the Jewish belief be better for you???????? Mad Joe never makes any sense.

Having said that, all religions are full of dogmas which are insane and stupid!!! They might be alright for their time but are certainly stupid from the modern time of view. And many of their practices are immoral....slavery is a case in point.
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