Discussion:
Can people choose their beliefs?
(too old to reply)
Michael Cole
2018-04-02 14:36:23 UTC
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I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Greywolf
2018-04-02 15:09:51 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
_____________

I've come to the conclusion that fervent theists don't WANT to know the truth. They WANT to believe what makes them feel content with the world and "righteous." Religion is nothing more than a psychological "crutch" for most of them. But they don't even realize that.

A strange thing: I've always respected the writing of the great Catholic theologian and bible scholar, Robert E. Brown. He's admitted to any *number* of errors in the NT. But I'd bet that if he were to be put in front of a firing squad and told to either denounce his Christian faith or die, he'd more than likely say, "Fire away!"

Some people find it just impossible to accept that there's no Divinity of any sort. They just can't accept it.

That would be fine, if only they'd recognize that they're hopelessly close-minded, and so, stay out of alt.atheism. There's NOTHING that's going to convince them that they're wrong. So what's their point in staying here?
Michael Cole
2018-04-02 15:28:51 UTC
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I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-02 16:10:36 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
I agree. The English word "belief," in the sense of a world view, denotes a well-formed mental state. The brain is colonized by a belief and the associations are too extensive and complex to come fully under the control of the casual and deliberate act of "choosing."
Greywolf
2018-04-02 16:38:07 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
_______

I think most of us would just *bristle* at the thought that two and two = five. It's as an offensive thought as all get out. But you're onto something when you suggest the possibility of just choosing what to believe simply to make oneself feel happier.

That's what belief in a God, a God that not a single individual on planet earth can provide irrefutable evidence for is all about. It should be said that their belief is *just* a belief and leave sleeping dogs lie. To insist their belief is based on reality turns their belief into nothing more than a lie.
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:09:59 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I guess what I was getting at is that "choosing" what to believe seems meaningless to me. If I choose to believe something I am confessing that my belief is not an objective assessment of reality. Suppose I could give you proof beyond reasonable doubt that you would be happier if you believed that two and two is five instead of four. How could that possibly induce you to think it's true? I feel like anyone who can choose what to believe is not a practicing Homo sapiens.
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
Others find something that they think makes sense and stop looking. For all
they know, they could have found something they'd feel makes more sense. I
ha a friend who is similar to this. She finds some kind of religious belief
she likes and gives her all. Then, she finds something else she likes more
and changes to that. She's been through five religions in the years I've
known her - Judaism, Madame Blavatsky, Buddhism, Hinduism and some woman
whose name I can't remember. No, she is NOT interested in Christianity.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who actually did this and became Jewish. Two other friends who had been Catholic gradually became Deists. Only one friend actually became a Christian - High Church of
England. She said that she would have converted to Catholicism but didn't
like the way the Roman Catholic Church treated women.
Siri Cruise
2018-04-06 21:52:49 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Melzzzzz
2018-04-06 22:02:27 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Not necessarily. I switched to atheist when I was 41.
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
Yap Honghor
2018-04-06 23:49:34 UTC
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Post by Melzzzzz
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Not necessarily. I switched to atheist when I was 41.
It was not too old to switch.
You have a happier life and do not need to defend the evil pixie.
Post by Melzzzzz
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
duke
2018-04-07 17:59:24 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by hypatiab7
Some people can't help what hey believe. Some do this out of comfort or fear.
I agree that you can't choose what you believe with any kind of sincerity
without going through a fairly long learning process and plenty of time to
figure out if you really do believe. I've only known three people who
actually did this and became Jewish. Two
Apparently atheists have different brains than other people since they can
quickly choose to switch from a religion to atheist.
Correction: It's the lack of an active brain in operation.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
aaa
2018-04-02 19:57:13 UTC
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Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Deng Qi Feng
2018-04-02 20:19:26 UTC
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Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
aaa
2018-04-02 21:35:54 UTC
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Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 02:28:40 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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%
2018-04-03 02:32:03 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
into what piss and vinegar
aaa
2018-04-03 16:46:31 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 23:43:25 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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hypatiab7
2018-04-04 06:50:23 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
---
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Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:12:53 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
I thought we are boycotting this stupid moron for at least a month?
Post by Smiler
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
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hypatiab7
2018-04-08 17:55:19 UTC
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Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
Changing to what exactly?
Changing to different blood, moron.
I thought we are boycotting this stupid moron for at least a month?
Post by Smiler
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.
---
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Each one of us chose different methods from totally ignoring certain trolls
to only responding to certain trolls if they ever seemed to make some kind of sense. I tried that with John McCoy and it didn't work, so I'm now ignoring him. The same with Jtem.
hypatiab7
2018-04-04 06:49:32 UTC
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Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Post by aaa
Changing to what exactly?
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Don Martin
2018-04-04 22:08:47 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
!! Atheist ------------------------------
2018-04-05 16:27:39 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Replaced is changing, dickhead.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is *THE* foundation of Christianity.
Sycophant: a compulsive ass-kisser of un-evidenced dictator god.
hypatiab7
2018-04-08 16:26:13 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I should
have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Don Martin
2018-04-08 18:35:38 UTC
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On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I should
have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-09 02:08:01 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
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Kevrob
2018-04-09 03:15:42 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
--
You can't "eat your heart out" anymore, though. :)

Kevin R
Don Martin
2018-04-09 22:31:43 UTC
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Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
A promotion in status devout pigs are doubtless willing to die for.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-10 01:01:10 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
A promotion in status devout pigs are doubtless willing to die for.
We have plenty of 'devout pigs' here. Why don't you ask them?
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
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Don Martin
2018-04-10 02:27:09 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
And probably no longer Kosher.
Any blood and human flesh are never kosher, but I assume that you're
talking about the replacement valve which probably came from a pig.
If anything can save your life, it's considered as kosher, even from a pig.
A promotion in status devout pigs are doubtless willing to die for.
We have plenty of 'devout pigs' here. Why don't you ask them?
The Tories are all too willing to talk one's ear off.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-09 02:00:27 UTC
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Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
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Don Martin
2018-04-09 22:31:43 UTC
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Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-10 01:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger in
America.

*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even heard
of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the moment.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Don Martin
2018-04-10 02:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger in
America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even heard
of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the moment.
Over here, that's industrial strength! My old man did take 440 once:
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-11 03:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my
aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should
have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger
in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because some
idiot crossed two wires.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Don Martin
2018-04-11 22:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my
aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should
have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger
in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because some
idiot crossed two wires.
I've done 220: scared the hell out of my daughter who was present. I
do not care to repeat the experience.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-12 02:50:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood.
Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my
aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should
have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because
some idiot crossed two wires.
I've done 220: scared the hell out of my daughter who was present.
Didn't do much for me, either.
Fortunately the 5A fuse blew after about 2 minutes.
Post by Don Martin
I do not care to repeat the experience.
Neither do I.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Don Martin
2018-04-12 22:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because
some idiot crossed two wires.
I've done 220: scared the hell out of my daughter who was present.
Didn't do much for me, either.
Fortunately the 5A fuse blew after about 2 minutes.
Post by Don Martin
I do not care to repeat the experience.
Neither do I.
Ah, Mr S, 'tis amazing the number of subjects upon which we agree!
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-13 00:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at
the moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because
some idiot crossed two wires.
I've done 220: scared the hell out of my daughter who was present.
Didn't do much for me, either.
Fortunately the 5A fuse blew after about 2 minutes.
Post by Don Martin
I do not care to repeat the experience.
Neither do I.
Ah, Mr S, 'tis amazing the number of subjects upon which we agree!
I suspect that most would agree.
Isn't it amazing that neither of us saw any god at that time of great stress?
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Don Martin
2018-04-13 22:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at
the moment.
knocked him across the room (but little or no sense into him).
Industrial strength here is 440 volts (3 phase).
I got 'stuck' on 240 volts once, from one hand to the other, because
some idiot crossed two wires.
I've done 220: scared the hell out of my daughter who was present.
Didn't do much for me, either.
Fortunately the 5A fuse blew after about 2 minutes.
Post by Don Martin
I do not care to repeat the experience.
Neither do I.
Ah, Mr S, 'tis amazing the number of subjects upon which we agree!
I suspect that most would agree.
Even though "most" have very probably not personally experienced
220/240 volts AC? Why Mr S, it would appear that we have followers!
Post by Smiler
Isn't it amazing that neither of us saw any god at that time of great stress?
Personally, is was too busy trying to get the "experience" to stop to
trouble myself about gods.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Alex W.
2018-04-10 02:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger in
America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even heard
of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the moment.
The variation is bloody awful. I have had to put in some fairly serious
equipment to even out the voltage for my hifi...
%
2018-04-10 02:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood.  Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts.  Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is bigger in
America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even heard
of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the moment.
The variation is bloody awful.  I have had to put in some fairly serious
equipment to even out the voltage for my hifi...
i had to rewire my house
Smiler
2018-04-11 03:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my
aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should
have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
The variation is bloody awful. I have had to put in some fairly serious
equipment to even out the voltage for my hifi...
I've an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) for my computer equipment,
but that only cuts in when the voltage falls below a certain level.
It doesn't care if there is an over-voltage.

The chap with the 260 volts supply complained that his lamps burnt out after
only a few days. His house was next to the local sub-station.
That was in the days of filament lamps. I suspect that modern fluorescents
or LEDs would last longer.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Alex W.
2018-04-11 05:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by Don Martin
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change
our surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my
aortic valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should
have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
You can't just plug yourself into a light socket for a few hours?
That would make my nose glow.
Post by Don Martin
(Oh, I forgot--you guys have 220 volts. Forget I spoke!)
It's actually 240* volts. Continental Europe has 220 volts.
Pints, gallons, tons and electricity prove that not everything is
bigger in America.
*Nominally 240 volts, but in some places it's nearer 250. I've even
heard of one place where it's 260 volts. I'm getting 245 volts at the
moment.
The variation is bloody awful. I have had to put in some fairly serious
equipment to even out the voltage for my hifi...
I've an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) for my computer equipment,
but that only cuts in when the voltage falls below a certain level.
It doesn't care if there is an over-voltage.
The chap with the 260 volts supply complained that his lamps burnt out after
only a few days. His house was next to the local sub-station.
That was in the days of filament lamps. I suspect that modern fluorescents
or LEDs would last longer.
An uninterruptible power supply (fancy engineering verbiage for a backup
battery, I think) is a must for any computer.

As for voltage fluctuations, they do have a clearly audible effect on
sound reproduction. Installing a power conditioner is possibly the best
way to improve the sound of a hi-fi stack for the least money. Not only
will it even out the voltage, it will protect from possibly fatal power
surges and it will clean the power from interference by all the other
electrical apparatus in the home.
Alex W.
2018-04-10 02:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
There are newer models out now that offer cordless recharging; might be
worth investigating.
%
2018-04-10 02:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood.  Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
There are newer models out now that offer cordless recharging; might be
worth investigating.
solar power , yay
hleopold
2018-04-10 10:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
There are newer models out now that offer cordless recharging; might be
worth investigating.
But isn’t it rather hard to lay down on those wireless, phone chargers to
recharge your pacemaker? Too damned small to lay down on, and too damned
lumpy to lie on.

And the end tables they are normally put on, you can’t stretch out on them
either. Plus those tend to collapse under a normal humans weight. You try one
of those and you end up breaking the end table, your nose and your noggin.

(Jumping back to a conversation on a similar subject a month or so ago:) we
need a wind up pacemaker, think of Tik Tok of the Oz books, or one of them
with a “shaker” type recharge system, just do a few hundred Jumping Jacks
to git ‘er dun. Perfect for those who worry about WWIII or a Zombie
Apocalypse.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

America, making tomorrow's terrorists, today.
Don Martin
2018-04-10 21:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the oxygen
in the blood going through the heart had to come from somewhere. I
should have learned that when I found out that my aortic valve only had
two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve go bye-bye. I'm
now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
There are newer models out now that offer cordless recharging; might be
worth investigating.
But isn’t it rather hard to lay down on those wireless, phone chargers to
recharge your pacemaker? Too damned small to lay down on, and too damned
lumpy to lie on.
And the end tables they are normally put on, you can’t stretch out on them
either. Plus those tend to collapse under a normal humans weight. You try one
of those and you end up breaking the end table, your nose and your noggin.
(Jumping back to a conversation on a similar subject a month or so ago:) we
need a wind up pacemaker, think of Tik Tok of the Oz books, or one of them
with a “shaker” type recharge system, just do a few hundred Jumping Jacks
to git ‘er dun. Perfect for those who worry about WWIII or a Zombie
Apocalypse.
But nothing attracts zombies as reliably as a guy with a pacemaker
doing jumping jacks!
(About the nonexistent, anything may be asserted.)
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Smiler
2018-04-11 03:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Smiler
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Don Martin
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT), hypatiab7
Post by hypatiab7
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates
everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
It's being replaced by new blood.
Not new, but reoxygenated by the lungs blood. Good as new, perhaps,
but not really new since spawned from marrow.
Whew! I had it backwards! Thanks. I didn't stop to think that the
oxygen in the blood going through the heart had to come from
somewhere. I should have learned that when I found out that my aortic
valve only had two leaves, rather than the three it should have. Valve
go bye-bye. I'm now a cyborg.
Not as cyborgian as me.
I've a pacemaker. I believe the battery is due for renewal next year.
There are newer models out now that offer cordless recharging; might be
worth investigating.
I can't see how that would work. My pacemaker is programmed and checked
by a coil placed over it. Obviously using magnetic coupling. I've also been
told to keep clear of strong magnetic fields, like welding equipment.

Cordless recharging is also done by magnetic coupling.
Wouldn't that affect the pacemaker settings?
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 22:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Gospel TT
2018-04-05 01:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Lol your such a rumdum lol heart's pump blood, rumdum lol.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-05 12:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
But blood is the _actual_ content of your heart, though feelings can affect your heart rate. He needs to be reminded that the idea of feelings being in the heart is poetic metaphor.

The only feeling your heart is capable of is pain when its under strain.

Feelings, it's now perfectly clear, are a product of the paleocortex.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 20:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
But blood is the _actual_ content of your heart, though feelings can affect your heart rate. He needs to be reminded that the idea of feelings being in the heart is poetic metaphor.
The only feeling your heart is capable of is pain when its under strain.
Feelings, it's now perfectly clear, are a product of the paleocortex.
Of course I meant what I said in the literary poetic sense. However, that was what aaa meant and I was paraphrasing him.
Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Idiot....if our heart or feeling never change, there will be no single divorce in America. Fuck, you really don't know much, do you?
Gospel TT
2018-04-05 23:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Yap Honghor
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our
surroundings and
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never
changes.
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid
motherfucker..
Post by Yap Honghor
Idiot....if our heart or feeling never change, there will be no
single divorce in America. Fuck, you really don't know much, do you?

He's a rumdum that don't no heart's pump blood.
hypatiab7
2018-04-08 16:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
The blood in our heart is constantly changing, liar.
--
He was talking about feelings, not blood, you stupid motherfucker..
Will you please stop comparing me to you.
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 01:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
Tell that to my ex-wife.



(j/k not really divorced)
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-04 09:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything
including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and
our minds change as well
The mind always changes, but what's in our heart never changes.
Hopefully it changes about 60 times a minute.
Kevrob
2018-04-02 22:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
Having had a strict Catholic upbringing, and having had many a late
night bull session with fellow students at my Catholic college, I ran
into people who didn't believe, but really wanted to. They doubled-down
on the ritual, hoping they'd get inspired by the Holy Ghost/Spirit. They
read books about converts, and how they "saw the light." They took the
required theology courses seriously. Some of them did such a good job
that they were able to throttle their doubts, and at least fake belief.

I was pretty much a believer until I fell ill, had to leave school for
a while, and enter the job market. I returned to college after a while
and completed my last year's worth of courses 3 semesters, two
done part-time, and one full-time. During my hiatus, I had deprogrammed
myself from religion, and stopped attending church. The arguments I
had with my parents about that last were brutal, and as soon as I could
move out and live on my own, I did. The premises underlying belief
had collapsed for me, and all the logical superstructure piled on top -
and there was plenty, from Augustinian neo-Platonism* to Anselm to
Whitehead (and, yeah, we studied all that in school, and I wasn't
earning either a theology major or minor). It stopped making sense.

Now, while out of school, I read many works based on philosophical
naturalism, so I began to realize that ghodz were not needed to explain
the world. Many folks never adopt that mindset, even provisionally.
Scientists share in it, but some use the "this is how we do it in
the lab, but in the rest of my life, I will allow the fables to govern"
rule.

We have that not unusual fellow, who doesn't ascribe to an official
religion, but treats them all like the cliche Chinese restaurant menu,
grabbing one dogma from column A and another from column B, making up
his own "spiritual, but not religious" grab-bag. No matter that there
is no philosophical coherence.

Deng's query about whether this is the result of free will or
determinism is on point, though. If we are all fated to believe
what we believe, or to eschew belief, there's no moral worth to
taking any position, and no point in discussing it.

Kevin R
Kevrob
2018-04-02 22:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
.....Augustinian neo-Platonism*
Notice, this phrase...


[rot-13]

Gur tebhc unf orra znexrqyl serr bs gung gebyy, Qhapna, yngryl.
V ubcr ur qvqa'g snyy naq oernx uvf uvc va zber guna svir cynprf.

[/rot-13]

Kevin R
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kevrob
.....Augustinian neo-Platonism*
Notice, this phrase...
[rot-13]
Gur tebhc unf orra znexrqyl serr bs gung gebyy, Qhapna, yngryl.
V ubcr ur qvqa'g snyy naq oernx uvf uvc va zber guna svir cynprf.
Four at least.
Post by Kevrob
[/rot-13]
MattB
2018-04-02 22:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT), Deng Qi Feng
Post by Deng Qi Feng
Is it free will or illusion of free will? Science dictates everything including our thoughts, beliefs and mood. Change our surroundings and our minds change as well
That is true to a point if I go up the mountain and read in peace my
mood improves. No belief required.
Greywolf
2018-04-02 22:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
______________

Should I puke now, or later?
aaa
2018-04-02 23:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
--
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
______________
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 02:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
aaa
2018-04-03 16:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
God's spiritual evidence:

Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Smiler
2018-04-03 23:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense
I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I
can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems
true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or
I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do
otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in
the teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of
Christ. They don't have to specifically state that it's the love
from the bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ.
We make all kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love
for the pure spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would
hide within ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
Thanks for the admission that you're only an insane troll and don't believe
the nonsense you write.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 03:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.

You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-05 13:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.

Congratulations. Your friends at Stormfront have trained you well.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 20:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-05 22:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Child's play. The post I responded to is a good example of your typical bullshit when you discuss atheists:

"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."

No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.

Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!

You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-06 02:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.

Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-04-06 07:00:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.

Since they are so easy to find I will humor you with a couple more:

"Correcting an atheist is an exercise in futility for several reasons:

1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"

From: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ

Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.

"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"

Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z

No again, bigot.

And the beat goes on . . .
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-06 23:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.
1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"
From: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ
Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.
"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"
Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z
No again, bigot.
And the beat goes on . . .
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
Street
2018-04-07 00:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Hollis Brown Jr.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by aaa
Post by Smiler
Post by aaa
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
They don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the
bottom of their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all
kind of choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure
spiritual reason is the most precious one that we would hide within
ourselves to keep anyone from stealing it from us.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.
Should I puke now, or later?
Why should I care?
You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be here, liar.
No, I don't. I love it when I can make an atheist sick to his stomach.
It's a bitter medicine for his disbelief in God.
--
The only way to make one of them sick is to make them drink something nasty.
You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do
it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none.
No. The above does not describe me in any way. You are a lying
bigot who has much in common with the anti-semites you rail against.
Post examples of my bigotry. I'll give you 24 hours.
Child's play. The post I responded to is a good example of your
"You can't do it with pride because they have no pride. You can't do
it with shame because they never feel guilt. You can't do it by appealing to their
conscience because they have none."
No pride? Never feel guilt? No conscience? Bigoted lies about a
class of people because you can't deal with a few individuals.
Whew! Made it with only 22 hours to spare!
You may now resume your regularly scheduled rant . . .
Bigotry is based on ignorance. My opinion is based on 10 years of
experience here dealing with the atheists who post here. I have seen
the same obnoxious nonsense from every one of you, not just a few.
Moreover, I said "examples" ,not just one. You ran away after throwing
some useless bullshit at me. The clock is still ticking.
I agree that your bigotry is based on ignorance.
1)They can't read
2)They can't remember
3)They don't give a damn about the truth"
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/kG_w-Wn-TLE/B1YqiGrGBgAJ
Nope. None of that describes me. Be more precise, bigot.
"The Dictionary Proves That Atheists Are Ignorant"
Thread title: https://tinyurl.com/y82a7z4z
No again, bigot.
And the beat goes on . . .
ROTFL! I'm a stupid asshole!
True.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-07 01:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________

How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?

Still adjusting the dose?

How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
Street
2018-04-07 02:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
LOL! :)
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-07 11:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
Street
2018-04-07 13:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
ArtyJoe's pizza recipe proves he eats shit:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-07 16:21:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Street
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
The average turd is more valuable than you are.
Street
2018-04-07 16:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Street
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
Still adjusting the dose?
How's things at Madjoe's Accountancy and Shitzeria?
More lies
http://tinyurl.com/y8rrvltw
The average turd is more valuable than you are.
Of course it is, for you. For you, it's food. But we normals consider that
to be disgusting, ArtyJoe.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-09 01:39:13 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
ROTFL! You don't get veto power over my posts.
________________________
How are the new antipsychotic drugs working for you?
I don't take any.
hypatiab7
2018-04-03 00:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Greywolf
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ. They
don't have to specifically state that it's the love from the bottom of
their heart that made them to believe in Christ. We make all kind of
choices in our everyday life. The choice of love for the pure spiritual
reason is the most precious one that we would hide within ourselves to
keep anyone from stealing it from us.
______________
Should I puke now, or later?
Get it over with. You'll feel better.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-04 09:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.

But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.

There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
Kevrob
2018-04-04 11:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.

Consider our troll, Jesper. He tells us he bounced from
Lutheran to Buddhist to Mormon before settling on the Krishnas.

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

Have you heard of the cult-recruitment technique called
"love-bombing?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing

For a lot of "seekers," it may not be a matter of
"finding the truth" as much as it is finding a social
group where you feel welcomed and comfortable.
Once they've set that hook in you, people can
rationalize any belief.

I don't doubt that, when I was deciding to drop Catholicism,
the fact that I had a network of fellow fans of science fiction and
punk/new wave music, and folks interested in libertarian politics
to crash with and hang out with, help me get a job and basically be
a "substitute family" until I could get on my feet helped me. In my
case, it was "change my mind, then figure out new living arrangements,"
rather than "fall in love with a religious girl and convert" or some
other social benefit tempting me.

Now, if you ditch faith as a fully formed, employed adult, you
might not have to scramble for a place to live, as I did. Note:
my parents didn't kick me out. I just couldn't put up with
their daily disapproval, and I was living with them 2,000 miles
away from where I wanted to finish college. So I packed up one
weekend after giving notice at my job and caught a plane - you
could just start to get cheap fares in the late 1970s.

A fellow fan put me up until I could find a job and an apartment,
which I shared with another fan. I lived in a series of "slan
shacks" for a few years, until we could afford our own places.
Nobody cared if you were unconventional. Hell, we liked you
better if you were a geek or a weirdo. :) Life was interesting.
a couple of my buddies started a comics shop, where we hung out
and filled in behind the counter as needed. We went to SF and
comics conventions, and especially at the SF cons we were
surrounded by people who took a rational approach to the universe
to a much greater extent than in the "mundane" world. A similar
dynamic existed when I got involved in libertarian politics.
some of my friends and allies were religious, running the gamut
from Catholics to Unitarian Universalists to Taoists, but nobody
expected you to agree with you about religion, and, probably because
most had at least heard of Ayn Rand, didn't assume non-believers were
necessarily moral monsters, but might be committed to ethical behavior.

I imagine their might be similar acceptance of rationalism among
our socialist counterparts, while the actual communists would
look askance at any religious belief.

Kevin R
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 23:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.

I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.

I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
Kevrob
2018-04-05 01:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.

You are indistinguishable from Niu Nian, our "aaa" troll.

How hard did you hit _your_ head?

Kevin R
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-05 02:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kevrob
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.
Is that so? Let me tell you something. God only talks to those who believe in Him. It's obvious that even tho you were raised Catholic, you never believed in Him. What you did years ago was practice deceit by
pretending to be a Catholic. You violated one of the Ten Commandments which forbids lying.

Now, you are practicing deceit again just like all the other scumbag atheists do. You distort the FAQ rules for AA and falsely accuse people of proselytizing when they are doing no such thing. You label sincere posters as
"trolls" which is nonsense. A troll means only people who post for the sole purpose of starting fights and getting people upset.

After seeing you in action here, I wouldn't trust you to take out the garbage or give me the right time.

If we are ever in the same room, I will be careful never to turn my back on you.

You should never fear that I will try and convert you to Judaism.
We don't want you.
Kevrob
2018-04-05 03:26:03 UTC
Permalink
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by aaa
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
I think that's just your exaggeration. People choose to believe in the
teaching of Jesus because they are moved by the passion of Christ.
Its not a question about why one would choose to believe something. In many societies there are clear, practical advantages to believing the prevailing religion.
But the rational person believes not what it is expedient to believe, or comfortable to believe, but what they see evidence for.
There may be strong reasons for _pretending_ to believe, but that's another matter.
I can conceive of a desire to belong so strong that one
checks one's reason at the door and gives in to emotional
appeals to believe.
That shows how little you know about religion. I have no desire to belong to a group. Most of my prayers are said at home, alone. It's between God and I. His is the only opinion that counts at a time like that.
I believe that, when my conscience tells me I am doing something wrong, it is Hashem(Melech Ha olom) speaking, doing everything He can to keep me from making a serious mistake.Good grief! If I can communicate with Him directly, I don't need a rabbi and I sure as Hell don't need Jesus.
I know other Jews who pray alone. I've heard that some Catholics do it, too.
So, you talk to non-existent beings, and you think they "talk" back.
Is that so? Let me tell you something. God only talks to those who believe in Him.
Nice circular "reasoning," there.

Did Moses believe in Yahooey, before he saw that burning bush?
He was raised Egyptian, and they were polytheists, except for that
short enthusiasm for Aton.
Post by v***@gmail.com
It's obvious that even tho you were raised Catholic, you never believed in Him. What you did years ago was practice deceit by
pretending to be a Catholic. You violated one of the Ten Commandments which forbids lying.
Or, I was a kid buying what his parents and teachers were pushing,
until he grew up.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Now, you are practicing deceit again just like all the other scumbag atheists do. You distort the FAQ rules for AA and falsely accuse people of proselytizing when they are doing no such thing.
Nonsense. You aren't trying to recruit new Jews. You do seem to
be trying to make a more general case for goyin to pick a theism.
Post by v***@gmail.com
You label sincere posters as "trolls" which is nonsense.
Sincerity has nothing to do with it. Some trolls are
completely sincere. Torquemada may have been sincere.
Post by v***@gmail.com
A troll means only people who post for the sole purpose of starting fights and getting people upset.
You post for those reasons, perhaps not solely.

Kevin R
Alex W.
2018-04-03 02:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".

We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.

So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-12 23:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".
We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.
So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say in this discussion.
As I see it, I mostly don't consciously choose a belief but I use
a collection of rules to examine ideas and decide what we think
of them. Goals of this process probably include, but may not be
limited to, generating many useful opinions while not holding
mistaken ones. And an opinion is not necessarily a certainty;
for instance, the weather forecast may tell you there is a forty
percent chance of rain. It may rain, it may not, and that's
reasonable to believe.

Excuse me for a minute...
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-12 23:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".
We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.
So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say in this discussion.
As I see it, I mostly don't consciously choose a belief but I use
a collection of rules to examine ideas and decide what we think
of them. Goals of this process probably include, but may not be
limited to, generating many useful opinions while not holding
mistaken ones. And an opinion is not necessarily a certainty;
for instance, the weather forecast may tell you there is a forty
percent chance of rain. It may rain, it may not, and that's
reasonable to believe.
Excuse me for a minute...
I had to restart my computer. Anyway... what someone may mean
hen they "choose" to believe in religion is that they're aware of
reasons not to - the crudeness, implausibility, and outright
contradiction within their sacred book, as well as contradictions
of modern knowledge - and they are ignoring that argument because -
why? Because they fear that God will punish them for not believing
that rubbish? For stopping believing? Or that their family or
community will?
Alex W.
2018-04-13 06:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".
We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.
So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say in this discussion.
As I see it, I mostly don't consciously choose a belief but I use
a collection of rules to examine ideas and decide what we think
of them. Goals of this process probably include, but may not be
limited to, generating many useful opinions while not holding
mistaken ones. And an opinion is not necessarily a certainty;
for instance, the weather forecast may tell you there is a forty
percent chance of rain. It may rain, it may not, and that's
reasonable to believe.
Excuse me for a minute...
I had to restart my computer. Anyway... what someone may mean
hen they "choose" to believe in religion is that they're aware of
reasons not to - the crudeness, implausibility, and outright
contradiction within their sacred book, as well as contradictions
of modern knowledge - and they are ignoring that argument because -
why? Because they fear that God will punish them for not believing
that rubbish? For stopping believing? Or that their family or
community will?
Please let me know what sort of computer you have that allows you to
type "Excuse me for a minute" before having to re-start! Mine always
shuts down or freezes without warning or option to be polite...

We all have these rules and filters, from the smallest issue (which
brand of laundry detergent should I buy today) to the largest (heaven or
hell?). These are in themselves largely subjective and often
subconscious. Worse yet, we have a tendency to dress up subjective,
biased and instinctive decisions and actions as rational and objective.
We are past masters at rationalisation, both during the decision-making
process and post ex facto. We buy a new telly and tell ourselves (and
everybody else) that we did so because of the good financing deal ("0%
interest for the first 12 months, I just had to go for it"), the free
added warranty ("... worth £300!"), the capacity of the hard drive or
the squintillions of revolutionary new technology pixels. We do not
admit that we did so because our neighbour has one such and we want one
that is newer, better and more upmarket, or that the remote feels better
in our hand, or that we feel we deserve a treat as the wife went and
bought herself four pairs of shoes (tit for tat shopping). We vote for
X and we dress it up with a few cherry-picked slogans from politicians
and a few stats and arguments hammered into us by the media of our
choice to appear well-read and in possession of a considered opinion.
We do not admit that we voted for X because he's a bloke (or she's a
woman), because he "looks so sympathetic", or because that is what we
have always voted and so have our parents before us.

The very same attitude pervails with religion: specifically which
religion and denomination, and more generally with our views on the
existence of gods, heaven or hell. In fact, in such instances our
stance is often much harder than in other matters, much less open to
amendments or even nuanced thinking. We simply do not invest so much
emotion in our choice of detergent as in our core beliefs.

As a consequence, our choice is largely illusory. Even if we were fully
conscious and in control of our value and filtering systems, most of us
are highly resistant to question or amend them. To do so would be to
question all such values. It would mean questioning all our decisions
and behaviour past, present and future. It would massively affect our
self-image and self-worth. How would it make you feel to sit there and
acknowledge to yourself that your life choices and convictions were
wrong, that you were offered but ignored or denied advice and
information which now turn out to have been on the nail? How hard must
it be to have to face up to the fact that the fundamental beliefs by
which you ordered all your choices and decisions are severely flawed and
must be abandoned?

Also playing into that reluctance to make and act on hard choices
because we actively desire certainty and predictability, and constantly
questioning our motives and choices would preclude such double-checking.
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-14 09:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".
We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.
So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say in this discussion.
As I see it, I mostly don't consciously choose a belief but I use
a collection of rules to examine ideas and decide what we think
of them. Goals of this process probably include, but may not be
limited to, generating many useful opinions while not holding
mistaken ones. And an opinion is not necessarily a certainty;
for instance, the weather forecast may tell you there is a forty
percent chance of rain. It may rain, it may not, and that's
reasonable to believe.
Excuse me for a minute...
I had to restart my computer. Anyway... what someone may mean
hen they "choose" to believe in religion is that they're aware of
reasons not to - the crudeness, implausibility, and outright
contradiction within their sacred book, as well as contradictions
of modern knowledge - and they are ignoring that argument because -
why? Because they fear that God will punish them for not believing
that rubbish? For stopping believing? Or that their family or
community will?
Please let me know what sort of computer you have that allows you to
type "Excuse me for a minute" before having to re-start! Mine always
shuts down or freezes without warning or option to be polite...
There may be signs. In this case, a Windows "tablet" computer
that can be viewed with the display "tall" - my usual mode -
or "wide", automatically switching according to how I hold it -
but it got itself stuck in "wide". Uh oh. Save what you're
doing, then restart. Memory warnings - also bad.
Post by Alex W.
We all have these rules and filters, from the smallest issue (which
brand of laundry detergent should I buy today) to the largest (heaven or
hell?). These are in themselves largely subjective and often
subconscious. Worse yet, we have a tendency to dress up subjective,
biased and instinctive decisions and actions as rational and objective.
We are past masters at rationalisation, both during the decision-making
process and post ex facto. We buy a new telly and tell ourselves (and
everybody else) that we did so because of the good financing deal ("0%
interest for the first 12 months, I just had to go for it"), the free
added warranty ("... worth £300!"), the capacity of the hard drive or
the squintillions of revolutionary new technology pixels. We do not
admit that we did so because our neighbour has one such and we want one
that is newer, better and more upmarket, or that the remote feels better
in our hand, or that we feel we deserve a treat as the wife went and
bought herself four pairs of shoes (tit for tat shopping). We vote for
X and we dress it up with a few cherry-picked slogans from politicians
and a few stats and arguments hammered into us by the media of our
choice to appear well-read and in possession of a considered opinion.
We do not admit that we voted for X because he's a bloke (or she's a
woman), because he "looks so sympathetic", or because that is what we
have always voted and so have our parents before us.
The very same attitude pervails with religion: specifically which
religion and denomination, and more generally with our views on the
existence of gods, heaven or hell. In fact, in such instances our
stance is often much harder than in other matters, much less open to
amendments or even nuanced thinking. We simply do not invest so much
emotion in our choice of detergent as in our core beliefs.
As a consequence, our choice is largely illusory. Even if we were fully
conscious and in control of our value and filtering systems, most of us
are highly resistant to question or amend them. To do so would be to
question all such values. It would mean questioning all our decisions
and behaviour past, present and future. It would massively affect our
self-image and self-worth. How would it make you feel to sit there and
acknowledge to yourself that your life choices and convictions were
wrong, that you were offered but ignored or denied advice and
information which now turn out to have been on the nail? How hard must
it be to have to face up to the fact that the fundamental beliefs by
which you ordered all your choices and decisions are severely flawed and
must be abandoned?
Also playing into that reluctance to make and act on hard choices
because we actively desire certainty and predictability, and constantly
questioning our motives and choices would preclude such double-checking.
Overall I think you're pessimistic. Surely most adults
are aware of operating with prejudices and influences that
they may once have considered consciously but now perform
as an unconscious process. As contradictory as that is.

In organised religion, questioning your beliefs is liable
to be punished, either by the god or by your believing
family and friends. In politics, too.
Kevrob
2018-04-14 12:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to
believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will
and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I
seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can
choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to
me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not
sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
For a proper answer, we would have to define "choose".
We all make our choices based on a set of internal criteria, factors,
biases and perspectives. Some of these are higher-order thought, such
as the use of logic or the rational weighing up of advantages and
drawbacks. Others are innate, such as preferences for certain colours
or foods. Yet others are the result of our social and cultural
background: these often unconscious filters strongly predispose us
towards certain choices.
So what seems true to you really does depend on where you live, where
you were born and brought up, and whether you were taught critical
thought.
I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say in this discussion.
As I see it, I mostly don't consciously choose a belief but I use
a collection of rules to examine ideas and decide what we think
of them. Goals of this process probably include, but may not be
limited to, generating many useful opinions while not holding
mistaken ones. And an opinion is not necessarily a certainty;
for instance, the weather forecast may tell you there is a forty
percent chance of rain. It may rain, it may not, and that's
reasonable to believe.
Excuse me for a minute...
I had to restart my computer. Anyway... what someone may mean
hen they "choose" to believe in religion is that they're aware of
reasons not to - the crudeness, implausibility, and outright
contradiction within their sacred book, as well as contradictions
of modern knowledge - and they are ignoring that argument because -
why? Because they fear that God will punish them for not believing
that rubbish? For stopping believing? Or that their family or
community will?
Please let me know what sort of computer you have that allows you to
type "Excuse me for a minute" before having to re-start! Mine always
shuts down or freezes without warning or option to be polite...
There may be signs. In this case, a Windows "tablet" computer
that can be viewed with the display "tall" - my usual mode -
or "wide", automatically switching according to how I hold it -
but it got itself stuck in "wide". Uh oh. Save what you're
doing, then restart. Memory warnings - also bad.
MS also sends warnings about the need to restart after downloads
of MS updates. I had to do that on 2 PCs I use at work tuesday
night going into Wednesday morning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday

If one is running a lot of processes, the machine can slow
to a crawl when the update is pushed through. On MS 7 one gets
a "restarting in 15 minutes' warning, so you can postpone that
until you are finished working.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
We all have these rules and filters,
.....
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
The very same attitude pervails with religion: specifically which
religion and denomination, and more generally with our views on the
existence of gods, heaven or hell. In fact, in such instances our
stance is often much harder than in other matters, much less open to
amendments or even nuanced thinking. We simply do not invest so much
emotion in our choice of detergent as in our core beliefs.
As a consequence, our choice is largely illusory. Even if we were fully
conscious and in control of our value and filtering systems, most of us
are highly resistant to question or amend them. To do so would be to
question all such values. It would mean questioning all our decisions
and behaviour past, present and future.
"The unexamined life is not worth living.." attributed to Socrates.

Quite a few here are committed to questioning and logical argument.
It isn't typical of the population at large.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
It would massively affect our
self-image and self-worth. How would it make you feel to sit there and
acknowledge to yourself that your life choices and convictions were
wrong, that you were offered but ignored or denied advice and
information which now turn out to have been on the nail? How hard must
it be to have to face up to the fact that the fundamental beliefs by
which you ordered all your choices and decisions are severely flawed and
must be abandoned?
Many of us went through something like that when we decided the religious
stories we had been taught as children didn't make sense.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Also playing into that reluctance to make and act on hard choices
because we actively desire certainty and predictability, and constantly
questioning our motives and choices would preclude such double-checking.
Overall I think you're pessimistic. Surely most adults
are aware of operating with prejudices and influences that
they may once have considered consciously but now perform
as an unconscious process. As contradictory as that is.
Sadly, people are much better at noticing biases in others,
even ones that aren't there!
Post by Robert Carnegie
In organised religion, questioning your beliefs is liable
to be punished, either by the god or by your believing
family and friends. In politics, too.
Yea, verily.

Kevin R

MarkA
2018-04-03 13:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe
the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether
we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be
able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to
believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe
it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I
don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
99% of what our brains do is subconscious, and beyond our control. Our
conscious/rational mind is mostly occupied with coming up for reasons for
the decisions our "lizard brain" has already made. Religion is probably
the most clear example of that.

My wife is Catholic, and I go to church with her twice a year, on
Christmas and Easter. The other day, as I sat there, listening to the
priest talk about love and forgiveness and mercy and compassion, it was
clear they are trying to talk themselves into behaviors that their
rational minds find virtuous, but their lizard brains won't allow.
Throughout history, people have never done violence to each other with
such glee as they do when they are motivated by their religion.
--
MarkA

Believing with 100% certainty does not mean you've found truth. It
means you've stopped looking for it. -- Bill Flavell
j***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 01:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MarkA
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe
the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether
we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be
able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to
believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe
it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I
don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
99% of what our brains do is subconscious, and beyond our control.
Doubt it.
Post by MarkA
Our
conscious/rational mind is mostly occupied with coming up for reasons for
the decisions our "lizard brain" has already made. Religion is probably
the most clear example of that.
My wife is Catholic, and I go to church with her twice a year, on
Christmas and Easter. The other day, as I sat there, listening to the
priest talk about love and forgiveness and mercy and compassion, it was
clear they are trying to talk themselves into behaviors that their
rational minds find virtuous, but their lizard brains won't allow.
Throughout history, people have never done violence to each other with
such glee as they do when they are motivated by their religion.
--
MarkA
Believing with 100% certainty does not mean you've found truth. It
means you've stopped looking for it. -- Bill Flavell
Michael Cole
2018-04-04 02:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Many people on this thread have pointed out that our thinking is complex and is affected by psychological factors. That I get. Who knows. Perhaps even a rational guy like has biased judgement. Perhaps psychological issues affect my understanding of reality. If so, my biases
are subconscious issues. I understand that we are not as objective as we think we are and we try to be. What I DON'T understand is how anybody can consciously and deliberately choose what to believe for emotional reasons. That seems insane to me.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-04 20:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Theists certainly can choose their beliefs. People convert to different religions all the time. What Christians believe is completely different from what Moslems or Hindus believe. Jews and Christians share some beliefs, but the differences between the two religions are striking and the rituals are totally different. Jews, Christians and Moslems don't share any holidays at all. Jewish prayers are written in Hebrew. Moslem prayers are in Arabic. Christian prayers are in English these days.

When I turned 40, I decided to investigate different religions. I checked out Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. After a year, it became glaringly obvious that Judaism is the only one for me. It's the only one that makes sense to me and the only one that satisfies me emotionally.
Yap Honghor
2018-04-05 23:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Cole
I can't. I have met religious people who say they "choose" to believe the gospels. Let us not get into the question of free will and whether we can actually choose anything. But in whatever sense I seem to be able to choose what to eat for lunch, I do not feel I can choose what to believe about reality. Either something seems true to me so I believe it, or seems false so I disbelieve it, or I'm not sure in which case I don't know. How could anyone do otherwise?
Theists certainly can choose their beliefs. People convert to different religions all the time. What Christians believe is completely different from what Moslems or Hindus believe. Jews and Christians share some beliefs, but the differences between the two religions are striking and the rituals are totally different. Jews, Christians and Moslems don't share any holidays at all. Jewish prayers are written in Hebrew. Moslem prayers are in Arabic. Christian prayers are in English these days.
When I turned 40, I decided to investigate different religions. I checked out Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. After a year, it became glaringly obvious that Judaism is the only one for me. It's the only one that makes sense to me and the only one that satisfies me emotionally.
That is not the truth....
If Christianity inherited and eliminated the rubbish in Judaism, how could the Jewish belief be better for you???????? Mad Joe never makes any sense.

Having said that, all religions are full of dogmas which are insane and stupid!!! They might be alright for their time but are certainly stupid from the modern time of view. And many of their practices are immoral....slavery is a case in point.
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