Discussion:
Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion
(too old to reply)
John Ritson
2018-03-21 18:16:08 UTC
Permalink
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.

Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.

They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.

The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."

The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf

The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.

People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."

"1. The proportion of young adults (16-29)
with no religious affiliation (‘nones’) is as
high as 91% in the Czech Republic, 80%
in Estonia, and 75% in Sweden. These
compare to only 1% in Israel, 17% in
Poland, and 25% in Lithuania. In the UK
and France, the proportions are 70% and
64% respectively.

2. 70% of Czech young adults and c. 60%
of Spanish, Dutch, British, and Belgian
ones ‘never’ attend religious services.
Meanwhile, 80% of Czech young adults
and c. 70% of Swedish, Danish, Estonian,
Dutch, French and Norwegian ones
‘never’ pray.

3. Catholics make up 82% of Polish, 71% of
Lithuanian, 55% of Slovenian, and 54% of
Irish 16-29 year-olds. In France, it is 23%;
in the UK, 10%. ]

4. Only 2% of Catholic young adults in
Belgium, 3% in Hungary and Austria, 5%
in Lithuania, and 6% in Germany say they
attend Mass weekly. This contrasts sharply
with their peers in Poland (47%), Portugal
(27%), the Czech Republic (24%), and
Ireland (24%). Weekly Mass attendance
is 7% among French, and 17% among
British, Catholic young adults.

5. Only 26% of French young adults, and
21% British ones, identify as Christians.
Only 7% of young adults in the UK
identify as Anglicans, compared to 6%
as Muslims. In France, 2% identify as
Protestants, and 10% as Muslims. "
--
John Ritson

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Cloud Hobbit
2018-03-21 21:04:20 UTC
Permalink
The problem is that the believers who are so adamant about the evils of sex are the ones who pop out the most offspring whom they then indoctrinate and create more believers.

It seems clear that atheists have a duty to get in more happy sexy time so we can create more rational humans and breed out the idiot theists.

Its just a simple fact for you to realize.
%
2018-03-21 21:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cloud Hobbit
The problem is that the believers who are so adamant about the evils of sex are the ones who pop out the most offspring whom they then indoctrinate and create more believers.
It seems clear that atheists have a duty to get in more happy sexy time so we can create more rational humans and breed out the idiot theists.
Its just a simple fact for you to realize.
too bad you never get to have any sex and do your part
StanFast
2018-03-21 21:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cloud Hobbit
and breed out the idiot theists.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Its just a simple fact for you to realize.
too bad you never get to have any sex and do your part
I must be the non idiot theist category.
Yap Honghor
2018-04-09 01:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by %
Post by Cloud Hobbit
The problem is that the believers who are so adamant about the evils of sex are the ones who pop out the most offspring whom they then indoctrinate and create more believers.
It seems clear that atheists have a duty to get in more happy sexy time so we can create more rational humans and breed out the idiot theists.
Its just a simple fact for you to realize.
too bad you never get to have any sex and do your part
Can you lifeless moron troll in forums like alt.religiousshit, or alt.religiousstupidity?
StanFast
2018-03-21 21:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cloud Hobbit
the idiot theists.
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Its just a simple fact for you to realize.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-03-21 22:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Do you really think there is no deity?
______________

I see no reason to.

Certainly not the biblical one.
StanFast
2018-03-21 23:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then.
Maybe you have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-03-22 08:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then.
Maybe you have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________

There's always room for genuine evidence. I know of none.

As to perception I think my bullshit detector works well.
To me the Christian religion and the Hindu religion are equally ridiculous.

Most importantly to me is the Christian moral code is unlivable and evil therefore.

Having high standards is fine. Having impossible standards is pointless.

If Christian morality is wrong the it could not have come from an omnibenevelolent God.

Such an entity would through its omnipotence know better than to FUCK with our psyche that way If it wants us to thrive.

I'm open to the possibility of the existence of some kind of supreme being, just not the Judeo/Christian one.

I prefer my deity not be irrational and evil.
StanFast
2018-03-22 17:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then.
Maybe you have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
Smiler
2018-03-22 22:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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StanFast
2018-03-23 16:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
Smiler
2018-03-23 23:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you
have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
So you say. Now prove it.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Street
2018-03-23 23:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
The hell it ain't.
hypatiab7
2018-03-25 01:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
Please provide evidence that your god, whether formless or material, inside
or outside of space and time, ever existed. And, don't give me any nonsense about humans not being able to do this and that only your god can. We don't
accept personal faith as evidence.
%
2018-03-25 01:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by hypatiab7
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
Please provide evidence that your god, whether formless or material, inside
or outside of space and time, ever existed. And, don't give me any nonsense about humans not being able to do this and that only your god can. We don't
accept personal faith as evidence.
you don't accept anything as evidence ,
and if fails me to understand why ,
you continually ask for something you can and will deny ,
i would think it would be easier to ,
start your day by saying no and not having to talk the rest of the day
Andrew
2018-03-24 23:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by hypatiab7
Please provide evidence that your god, whether formless or
material, inside or outside of space and time, ever existed.
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when
ye shall search for me with all your heart."
~ God

Try it!


"And I will be found of you, saith the LORD."

~ Jerimiah 29:13-14


If you do, you will find Him.
Melzzzzz
2018-03-25 04:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by hypatiab7
Please provide evidence that your god, whether formless or
material, inside or outside of space and time, ever existed.
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when
ye shall search for me with all your heart."
~ God
Try it!
"And I will be found of you, saith the LORD."
~ Jerimiah 29:13-14
If you do, you will find Him.
You can find Him only in your dreams.... Bible si book of fiction...
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
StanFast
2018-03-25 19:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by hypatiab7
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe you have
trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
Please provide evidence that your god
I can and will at the appropriate time as He directs me to.
Smiler
2018-03-27 01:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by hypatiab7
Post by StanFast
Post by Smiler
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
Post by Cloud Hobbit
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then. Maybe
you have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.
_____________________
There's always room for genuine evidence.
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
A figment of your imagination.
That is simply not the case.
Please provide evidence that your god
I can and will at the appropriate time as He directs me to.
Another lame excuse for not being able to present any evidence.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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Cloud Hobbit
2018-03-24 07:52:51 UTC
Permalink
What do you think a deity is in the first place?
__________________

Unproven.
Unevidenced.
Imaginary.
Impossible.
Unnecessary.
Fiction.
Irrelevant.
Nonsensical.
Irrational.
Nonexistent.
Hollis Brown Jr.
2018-03-22 18:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by StanFast
Post by StanFast
Do you really think there is no deity?
______________
I see no reason to.
Certainly not the biblical one.
Looks like there is room in your mind for the idea then.
Maybe you have trouble perceiving things clearly in your head.

Alex W.
2018-03-21 23:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.

What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).

In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.

While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
Robert Carnegie
2018-03-22 08:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.

Having said that - cults are liable to tell members to give false
answers to surveys, such as when they join an institution that prefers
to keep the cult out.
Alex W.
2018-03-23 01:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html

Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some kind
of spiritual power".
Post by Robert Carnegie
Having said that - cults are liable to tell members to give false
answers to surveys, such as when they join an institution that prefers
to keep the cult out.
I have heard that, too.
But in strictly numerical terms, such false answers must be small enough
to be "noise".
Robert Carnegie
2018-03-23 02:01:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html
Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some kind
of spiritual power".
Yeah, the country also has Muslims. And Hindus, etc.
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Having said that - cults are liable to tell members to give false
answers to surveys, such as when they join an institution that prefers
to keep the cult out.
I have heard that, too.
But in strictly numerical terms, such false answers must be small enough
to be "noise".
Malcolm McMahon
2018-03-23 10:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html
Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some kind
of spiritual power".
Yeah, the country also has Muslims. And Hindus, etc.
Which misses the point that there are many people who feel there is some kind of spiritual power, but have no strong views on the nature of that power or loyalty to any established religion.
Kevrob
2018-03-23 11:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html
Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some kind
of spiritual power".
Yeah, the country also has Muslims. And Hindus, etc.
Which misses the point that there are many people who feel there is some kind of spiritual power, but have no strong views on the nature of that power or loyalty to any established religion.
If you suspect there is some "spiritual power," but can't provide any
reliable evidence for it past some warm fuzzies, that doesn't say much.
Unlike traditional religions who claim to have THE TRUTH, these
"spiritual but not religious" types could well be just "listening'
to their own subconscious minds. Even if some entity was exudes
these feewings, who is to say such a boojum would be benevolent, or
even neutral towards humans?

IMNSHO, these are people too CS to either declare themselves
part of a traditional belief system or to discard all such.
They are the modern equivalent of A&P Catholics, or HMD
Christians. (Hatched, matched and dispatched.) Would they
benefit from a self-inventory of their beliefs, and actually
deciding that they are dabbers in the fantastic? Maybe that
would scare some of them too much. Belief in ghodz or in the
less defined "forces of goodness" is a convenient crutch for
facing life.

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2018-03-24 05:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion or
denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young people
believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief but at
cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little about
actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html
Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some kind
of spiritual power".
Yeah, the country also has Muslims. And Hindus, etc.
Which misses the point that there are many people who feel there is some kind of spiritual power, but have no strong views on the nature of that power or loyalty to any established religion.
That's sort of true - it seems that in America, even more,
people believe for instance in "angels" as supernatural social
workers but not so much as agents of a personalised god -
but I presume that the "church attendance" statement refers to
Christianity, broadly; religion that reveres Christ - although
Islam also does that, a bit; it's complicated. Ish.
Anyway, Britain has other religions, too.
Smiler
2018-03-25 02:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Alex W.
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no
religion, a report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29
across Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least
religious - with 91% of that age group saying they have no
faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17%
of young adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young
Adults and Religion - which was a collaboration between St
Mary's University in London and the Catholic University of
Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European
Social Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if
they consider themselves to belong to any particular religion
or denomination."
Note that the questionnaire asked after allegiance to a religion
or denomination, as well as religious behaviour.
What is glaringly absent is the question whether these young
people believe in god(s).
In general terms, then, this survey was looking not at belief
but at cultural affiliations, family loyalties and maintenance
of traditions.
While this is bad news for established churches, it says little
about actual levels of agnosticism or atheism.
People believe either in their family's gods or in some cult that
recruited them at in impressionable age (30 and under or 40 an over).
These are neither, so they're atheists.
https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html
Contrast the numbers between church attendance and belief in "some
kind of spiritual power".
Yeah, the country also has Muslims. And Hindus, etc.
Which misses the point that there are many people who feel there is
some kind of spiritual power, but have no strong views on the nature of
that power or loyalty to any established religion.
That's sort of true - it seems that in America, even more, people
believe for instance in "angels" as supernatural social workers but not
so much as agents of a personalised god -
but I presume that the "church attendance" statement refers to
Christianity, broadly; religion that reveres Christ - although Islam
also does that, a bit; it's complicated. Ish.
Anyway, Britain has other religions, too.
Yep. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Rastafarians, Buddhists and, according
to the census, some Jedi too. All those add up to less than 10% of the population.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

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duke
2018-03-23 12:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
John Ritson
2018-03-23 15:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
--
John Ritson

---
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duke
2018-03-24 22:20:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
John Ritson
2018-03-24 23:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
--
John Ritson

---
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duke
2018-03-25 22:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Cloud Hobbit
2018-03-26 07:02:45 UTC
Permalink
And then one day we'll find out who's right.

the dukester

So there's no need to discuss it further.

Live and let live.
duke
2018-03-26 12:06:20 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 00:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by duke
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
the dukester
So there's no need to discuss it further.
Live and let live.
But your demise is being evaluated now.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-06 14:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
duke
2018-04-07 12:17:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.

Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
John Ritson
2018-04-07 14:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide
that
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out
anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
Which imaginary deity do you mean by "God"?
Shango, or Wotan, or Krishna, or...
--
John Ritson

---
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duke
2018-04-08 13:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide
that
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out
anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
Which imaginary deity do you mean by "God"?
Shango, or Wotan, or Krishna, or...
None of those. There is only one (1) living God almighty - creator of all
things in existence.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
John Ritson
2018-04-08 16:06:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:16:08 +0000, John Ritson
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion,
a
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by John Ritson
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide
that
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find
out
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to
us
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
that die in his grace.
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
Which imaginary deity do you mean by "God"?
Shango, or Wotan, or Krishna, or...
None of those. There is only one (1) living God almighty - creator of all
things in existence.
So you must mean Brahma.
--
John Ritson

---
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http://www.avg.com
duke
2018-04-09 12:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:16:08 +0000, John Ritson
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion,
a
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by John Ritson
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide
that
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find
out
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to
us
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
that die in his grace.
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
Which imaginary deity do you mean by "God"?
Shango, or Wotan, or Krishna, or...
None of those. There is only one (1) living God almighty - creator of all
things in existence.
So you must mean Brahma.
Well, you may believe in brahma, but I'm a Roman Catholic.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-11 13:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.

"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?

What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
duke
2018-04-12 12:07:29 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?
What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception. Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-12 13:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?
What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception.
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo. So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed? Is heaven paved with tiny souls. Are the _majority_ of souls in your afterlife people who have never lived?
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
duke
2018-04-13 12:06:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 06:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?
What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception.
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo.
So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed?
God knows. And when the physical dies, the soul survives.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Is heaven paved with tiny souls. Are the _majority_ of souls in your afterlife people who have never lived?
Stupid boy, it's an essence, not an organ.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-13 14:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 06:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
I once went through a searchable Bible looking for uses of the word Soul. In every case I found what was referred to was what we might call the "emotional self" aka "The Heart". Nothing spooky or especially eternal about it. I'm pretty convinced that the authors of the new testament thought of eternal life as being the survival of the body.

There's nothing there to suggest the soul can exist outside of the body.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?
What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception.
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo.
So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed?
God knows. And when the physical dies, the soul survives.
So, that would suggest that the vast majority of souls in Heaven will never have lived. They never made it beyond the 8 cell stage. They never had a nervous system.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Is heaven paved with tiny souls. Are the _majority_ of souls in your afterlife people who have never lived?
Stupid boy, it's an essence, not an organ.
Yet it's part of the furniture of Heaven.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
duke
2018-04-14 18:18:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:24:00 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 06:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
I once went through a searchable Bible looking for uses of the word Soul. In every case I found what was referred to was what we might call the "emotional self" aka "The Heart". Nothing spooky or especially eternal about it. I'm pretty convinced that the authors of the new testament thought of eternal life as being the survival of the body.
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
There's nothing there to suggest the soul can exist outside of the body.
The soul is not an organ. It's the character given to man by God at the moment
of conception.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm
The question of the reality of the soul and its distinction from the body is
among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the
doctrine of a future life. Various theories as to the nature of the soul have
claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure
instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or
spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception.
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo.
So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed?
God knows. And when the physical dies, the soul survives.
So, that would suggest that the vast majority of souls in Heaven will never have lived. They never made it beyond the 8 cell stage. They never had a nervous system.
A soul is not - never been a person. When a person dies, does all of the
knowledge possessed by that person disappear.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-16 08:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:24:00 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 06:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 06:18:24 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Yet you're not normal. If you were, you'd believe in almighty God.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
I once went through a searchable Bible looking for uses of the word Soul. In every case I found what was referred to was what we might call the "emotional self" aka "The Heart". Nothing spooky or especially eternal about it. I'm pretty convinced that the authors of the new testament thought of eternal life as being the survival of the body.
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.

Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.

You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor belt of judgement shortly after death, but the idea of "judgement day" when "the graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.

Several older religious traditions had a seperable soul, and in some cases more than one per customer, but this doesn't seem to have reached the early Christians.

(Hindu has been around twice as long as Christianity, and I thing they've arrived at a more consistent story).
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
There's nothing there to suggest the soul can exist outside of the body.
The soul is not an organ. It's the character given to man by God at the moment
of conception.
Didn't say it was an organ. What it is depends on your version or what it does, but the question really is, does it survive the body? Be nice to have that lifeboat, but there isn't enough evidence to convince me.
Post by duke
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm
The question of the reality of the soul and its distinction from the body is
among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the
doctrine of a future life. Various theories as to the nature of the soul have
claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure
instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or
spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
A soul is not an organ. It is the essence of you, and you were given a soul at
conception.
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo.
So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed?
God knows. And when the physical dies, the soul survives.
So, that would suggest that the vast majority of souls in Heaven will never have lived. They never made it beyond the 8 cell stage. They never had a nervous system.
A soul is not - never been a person. When a person dies, does all of the
knowledge possessed by that person disappear.
Well, that's a good question. Obviously _some_ information remains in other people, in documents and recordings.

And suppose we do have a separable soul - would that have the information somehow recorded on it? Doesn't seem likely. To be eternal is, I suspect, to be simple. Any complex entity will sooner or later experience forces that tear it apart. I cannot reconcile the idea of a cache of memory protected outside of physics with the real effects of brain damage.

There's the possibility of an ability to reach back in time to access information about a life that has ended. Or maybe the soul is timeless, and remains in contact with each finite life eternally. This is also the essence of the "Omega Point" cult, that believes that some advanced science at the end of time will reach back for our memories.

My favourite picture is of lives being like books in a library, which souls pick out and live for much the same set of reasons we read books.

This is a subject that I've put some effort into, as you can tell. The Christian model of a single life followed by judgement and destruction or exploitation doesn't make sense to me, but then the universe is under no obligation to make sense to me.

Interestingly there's a shamanistic tradition from the Philipines that holds that we each have _three_ souls, and that they normally split up at death. One is the superior self. One is the rational self, and the third carries emotion and memory. That resonates quite well with some current neuroscience.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Siri Cruise
2018-04-16 09:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-16 10:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
I'm not arguing "physically impossible" here, I'm giving my assessment about what Christians have believed.

And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that could exist independently of the body.
Siri Cruise
2018-04-17 05:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that
could exist independently of the body.
And physicists used to think atoms were like raisins and pudding. Then they
thought electrons orbitted nuclei like planets around the sun. Then they
discoverred some electron orbitals require speeds that have relativistic
effects, for example why gold is yellow.

But of course religions must be static and can never change their
interpretations of their texts in light of new information and reflection. So
the very idea that early christians and modern christians can believe different
thing is blasphemy.

By the way most religious europeans still worship a variety of trees, stones,
and statues because each is a different god because beliefs cannot evolve.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-17 07:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that
could exist independently of the body.
And physicists used to think atoms were like raisins and pudding. Then they
thought electrons orbitted nuclei like planets around the sun. Then they
discoverred some electron orbitals require speeds that have relativistic
effects, for example why gold is yellow.
But of course religions must be static and can never change their
interpretations of their texts in light of new information and reflection. So
the very idea that early christians and modern christians can believe different
thing is blasphemy.
Religions do change their positions, but they have to change not only what they believe _now_. Changes have to be retroactive. They have to change what they've _always_ believed.

That's the problem with Holy Books, and the reason why they'd rather nobody actually read them.
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-17 09:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that
could exist independently of the body.
And physicists used to think atoms were like raisins and pudding. Then they
thought electrons orbitted nuclei like planets around the sun. Then they
discoverred some electron orbitals require speeds that have relativistic
effects, for example why gold is yellow.
But of course religions must be static and can never change their
interpretations of their texts in light of new information and reflection. So
the very idea that early christians and modern christians can believe different
thing is blasphemy.
Religions do change their positions, but they have to change not only what they believe _now_. Changes have to be retroactive. They have to change what they've _always_ believed.
That's the problem with Holy Books, and the reason why they'd rather nobody actually read them.
I notice that nobody has supplied "chapter and verse" on the separable soul question. A lot of Christians are firmly convinced that the Bible says this or that which really isn't there, though there are passages so vague that the desperate can claim they mean whatever they need them to mean.

Purgatory was a classic example we had fairly recently.
Siri Cruise
2018-04-17 11:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Siri Cruise
But of course religions must be static and can never change their
interpretations of their texts in light of new information and reflection. So
the very idea that early christians and modern christians can believe different
thing is blasphemy.
Religions do change their positions, but they have to change not only what
they believe _now_. Changes have to be retroactive. They have to change
what they've _always_ believed.
And they have always been at war with Eurasia......

Puh-leeze.

Some hindus are moving to monotheism, that their many gods are mere avatars or
subordinate agents of a single creator god, but they do not claim that is true
of all hindus past or present.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
That's the problem with Holy Books, and the reason why they'd rather nobody
actually read them.
Which is why odinists protest translating the Elder Edda into english and other
modern languages. How many odinists even speak icelandic?
Post by Malcolm McMahon
I notice that nobody has supplied "chapter and verse" on the separable soul
question. A lot of Christians are firmly convinced that the Bible says this
or that which really isn't there, though there are passages so vague that the
desperate can claim they mean whatever they need them to mean.
There are passages such as to the crucified thief that he would be in heaven
that evening, while his body would obviously still be awaiting burial or thrown
in the rubbish heap.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Purgatory was a classic example we had fairly recently.
I expect you can look up the actual argument in catholicism. And unlike
protestantism, that sect does not require everything have scriptual basis. So
not finding a scriptural basis is irrelevant.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Kevrob
2018-04-17 11:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
I'm not arguing "physically impossible" here, I'm giving my assessment about what Christians have believed.
And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that could exist independently of the body.
Soul - psyche - was an import from Persian and Greek thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible

If by "early Christians" one means 1st or 2nd century CE, MM is
on target here. The "Church Fathers" added a lot to the early
scriptures, or codified oral traditions that weren't included therein.

Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2018-04-17 21:21:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots
away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
I'm not arguing "physically impossible" here, I'm giving my assessment about what Christians have believed.
And my assessment is that the early Christians didn't believe in a soul that could exist independently of the body.
Soul - psyche - was an import from Persian and Greek thought.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible
If by "early Christians" one means 1st or 2nd century CE, MM is
on target here. The "Church Fathers" added a lot to the early
scriptures, or codified oral traditions that weren't included therein.
Kevin R
The earliest Christians didn't have the bible to read...
except in epistolary and pseudegraphical form.

They talk about dead Christians as having "fallen asleep",
implying that they're asleep.

In a bible story told (apparently) by Jesus, a rich guy
dies and goes to the bad fire for lengthy suffering, and
his poor neighbour lands on Abraham's bosom in heaven.
We presume that their physical bodies are disposed of
on Earth in the usual way. Maybe they got new ones.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_concept_of_the_soul>
is very complicated. So is that in the fantasy television
series _Charmed_, in which characters die and go to heaven
or to hell, die and get reincarnated, get transplanted into
alternate bodies, are duplicated in an alternate dimension
of evil twins, travel in time and change past or future
events, and of /course/ come back as ghosts.

It seems to me that you can't die and go to heaven /and/ be
reincarnated, so these people must have /two/ souls with these
distinct function. Or alternatively the concept of a soul
is different in different episodes of the series.

Somewhere, someone probably has examined _Chsrmed_ a lot
more carefully than I just did. There's probably thesises.
Kevrob
2018-04-17 11:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body rots away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
If you think it _can_, it is up to you to demonstrate that.

Kevin R
Siri Cruise
2018-04-17 12:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Can't. Man knew long before they thought of God that the dead body
rots
away.
Yes, but the original bunch expected Armageddon "before this generation shall
pass away", so they though that they'd be carried to safety by angels.
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that
Christ "demonstrated" took over. That is that the damage to the body would be
miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems
to be much later.
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
If you think it _can_, it is up to you to demonstrate that.
Unlike you I choose not to dictate what I cannot know.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Kevrob
2018-04-18 09:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Kevrob
Post by Siri Cruise
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
If you think it _can_, it is up to you to demonstrate that.
Unlike you I choose not to dictate what I cannot know.
Believe what you like. Asserting knowledge of the supernatural
in this forum is off-charter proselytizing, especially
when presented without credible evidence.

If it exists, perhaps it is knowable by humans. If it isn't
knowable, statements that assert existence of such can only be
"lucky guesses."

Kevin R
duke
2018-04-18 13:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Kevrob
Post by Siri Cruise
Yeah, because a reality warping supernatural cannot possibly happen after you
declare it cannot be. Because you are that powerful.
If you think it _can_, it is up to you to demonstrate that.
Unlike you I choose not to dictate what I cannot know.
Believe what you like. Asserting knowledge of the supernatural
in this forum is off-charter proselytizing, especially
when presented without credible evidence.
No, it's not. It means that you are in discussions you can't handle.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Kevrob
2018-04-18 15:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Kevrob
Believe what you like. Asserting knowledge of the supernatural
in this forum is off-charter proselytizing, especially
when presented without credible evidence.
No, it's not.
As many times as you can deny that is what you do, I can refute you.

Words mean things. Oxford has "proselytize" as:

Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief,
or opinion to another.

You seriously mean to convince us you aren't trying to
change our opinion, that there isn't enough evidence to
conclude that a ghod exists? Piffle!

and

Advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/proselytize

You certainly promote your faith, the RCC, specifically.

Merriam-Webster puts it as:

to induce someone to convert to one's faith

And

to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proselytize

I'll let the group readers decide if my opinion is "idiocy"
or accurate. Your trollish opinion is worthless.
Post by duke
It means that you are in discussions you can't handle.
I can handle myself just fine in such discussions.
This isn't the place for them. By insisting on
having such here, you are trolling.

Kevin R
duke
2018-04-20 18:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by duke
Post by Kevrob
Believe what you like. Asserting knowledge of the supernatural
in this forum is off-charter proselytizing, especially
when presented without credible evidence.
No, it's not.
As many times as you can deny that is what you do, I can refute you.
Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief,
or opinion to another.
And I don't. Only to present truth to a bunch of do-do birds living a lie.
Post by Kevrob
You certainly promote your faith, the RCC, specifically.
to induce someone to convert to one's faith
to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
No convert, no recruit. Only judge based on truth, not fabrication.


the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****

duke
2018-04-16 12:47:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor belt of judgement shortly after death, but the idea of "judgement day" when "the graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Scripture is clear.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-16 13:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Which means what, exactly, in practical terms.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor belt of judgement shortly after death, but the idea of "judgement day" when "the graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Scripture is clear.
Really? Where?
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
So decapitation would be a big inconvenience.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
Yet you second-guess Him all the time.
duke
2018-04-17 17:10:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Which means what, exactly, in practical terms.
That the soul of man, the animation that makes man a man, in infused by God at
the moment of man's conception.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction
of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor
belt of judgment shortly after death, but the idea of "judgment day" when "the
graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about
on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies
to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Scripture is clear. When we die, our physical bodies quickly rot and return to dust.
Really? Where?
Where - what.

That we rot away, or what
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
So decapitation would be a big inconvenience.
Why? Are you that ugly?
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
Yet you second-guess Him all the time.
Nope. My words are as he taught. You're the one dreaming up stuff.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Malcolm McMahon
2018-04-18 08:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Which means what, exactly, in practical terms.
That the soul of man, the animation that makes man a man, in infused by God at
the moment of man's conception.
I asked "in practical terms". What are the measurable consequences of that theory?
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction
of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor
belt of judgment shortly after death, but the idea of "judgment day" when "the
graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about
on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies
to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Scripture is clear. When we die, our physical bodies quickly rot and return to dust.
Really? Where?
Where - what.
That we rot away, or what
Indeed. Why is why survival in the body is not a credible option. All the information that constitutes our personality and memories rots away with the brain.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
So decapitation would be a big inconvenience.
Why? Are you that ugly?
You said that the body you get for the afterlife is in the same state as the one just before death. But the state of the body just before death can generally be described as "dying". Death is a process, not an event.

So, if you die because someone chops off you head, given that the actual process of death takes time even in those circumstances, the logical conclusion is spending your afterlife with your head tucked underneath your arm (as the song goes).

Hell of a way to run an afterlife.

Of course, that's just an extreme case. By the time most of us snuff it our body is likely to be something of a disaster area. If God doesn't repair gross holes, why expect to see the effects of dementia, amputation, incontinence etc. reversed?
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
Yet you second-guess Him all the time.
Nope. My words are as he taught. You're the one dreaming up stuff.
You're taught OK, pretty well brainwashed, I think for myself.
duke
2018-04-18 13:16:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Which means what, exactly, in practical terms.
That the soul of man, the animation that makes man a man, in infused by God at
the moment of man's conception.
I asked "in practical terms". What are the measurable consequences of that theory?
The "measurable" part is that all humans are humans with the preference for love
over hate, right over wrong, good over bad.

Dogs are always dogs, lions are lions, birds are birds: never to know love,
good, right. There is no decision making, only animal instinct, some of which
can be trained.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction
of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor
belt of judgment shortly after death, but the idea of "judgment day" when "the
graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about
on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies
to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Scripture is clear. When we die, our physical bodies quickly rot and return to dust.
Really? Where?
Where - what.
That we rot away, or what
Indeed. Why is why survival in the body is not a credible option.
All the information that constitutes our personality and memories rots away with the brain.
?? It's dead. Are you saying it doesn't rot away? The brain is a part of the
body, not the soul - our animation as humans.
That which gave you love, good, right is your soul.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
So decapitation would be a big inconvenience.
Why? Are you that ugly?
You said that the body you get for the afterlife is in the same state as the one just before death. But the state of the body just before death can generally be described as "dying". Death is a process, not an event.
Jesus taught us that in his resurrection - 3 days later.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
So, if you die because someone chops off you head, given that the actual process of death takes time even in those circumstances, the logical conclusion is spending your afterlife with your head tucked underneath your arm (as the song goes).
Hell of a way to run an afterlife.
Of course, that's just an extreme case. By the time most of us snuff it our body is likely to be something of a disaster area. If God doesn't repair gross holes, why expect to see the effects of dementia, amputation, incontinence etc. reversed?
God takes care of that issue.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
Yet you second-guess Him all the time.
Nope. My words are as he taught. You're the one dreaming up stuff.
You're taught OK, pretty well brainwashed, I think for myself.
I accept what God taught us.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Tim
2018-04-18 12:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
You came form dust, to dust you will return. But you were given a soul at
conception, and it is indestructible.
Then my comment applies this alleged soul. Its not in the book you know?
Of course it is.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Body-Soul-And-Spirit/
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Then, when that didn't happen, this idea of the physical resurrection that Christ "demonstrated" took over.
That is that the damage to the body would be miraculously repaired. The notion of what I call the "separable soul" seems to be much later.
The spirit of God is given to man at his conception.
Which means what, exactly, in practical terms.
That the soul of man, the animation that makes man a man, in infused by God at
the moment of man's conception.
You have zero evidence for that myth, fat boy.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
You can hear this in the classic burial service. Not the idea that we escape the destruction
of our bodies in some metaphysical lifeboat, which then goes onto the conveyor
belt of judgment shortly after death, but the idea of "judgment day" when "the
graves shall give up their dead." Note the implication. We're not floating about
on the astral plane, but "sleeping", waiting to be raised up and for our bodies
to be given a divine makeover if we qualify.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Scripture is clear. When we die, our physical bodies quickly rot and return to dust.
Really? Where?
Where - what.
That we rot away, or what
And that's it, end of story.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
So decapitation would be a big inconvenience.
Why? Are you that ugly?
You are ugly. Fat and ugly.
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
Yet you second-guess Him all the time.
Nope. My words are as he taught. You're the one dreaming up stuff.
No fat boy, you've been brainwashed into swallowing a myth someone else dreamed up.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-17 07:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Scripture is clear.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
- show quoted text -

Still just your opinion.
duke
2018-04-17 17:12:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:29:28 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by duke
Scripture is clear.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
- show quoted text -
Still just your opinion.
Nope. Jesus returned to show man the holes in his hands and feet. As he was
resurrected, so will we be. Of course, the damned go to hell that way too.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Tim
2018-04-18 12:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:29:28 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by duke
Scripture is clear.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Jesus was given a new body in his resurrection. You're condemning
yours.
If it was new, why the holes?
Confirmation it was Jesus the man in resurrection.
Btw, we are resurrected as we leave. Hence the holes.
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by Malcolm McMahon
But not a very encouraging demonstration that we'd all get a "perfect body" on judgement day. Nah, this wasn't just for the benefit of Doubting Thomas.
WE??? You have to die in complete love and obedience of God to get that. The
resurrection of the glorified body goes to the one that follows God.
Everyone who believes in eternal life believes they are entitled to it, because the idea of non-existence is literally unthinkable. WE is the audience of the miracle.
Screw that. God decides, not man.
- show quoted text -
Still just your opinion.
Nope. Jesus returned to show man the holes in his hands and feet. As he was
resurrected, so will we be. Of course, the damned go to hell that way too.
No evidence of that. You have to have a hole in your head to buy that nonsense, you stupid fat pig.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-15 04:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo. So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed? Is heaven paved with tiny souls. Are the _majority_ of souls in your afterlife people who have never lived?

____________

Can you imagine walking around heaven having to constantly away at those pesky flying zygote with their tiny little harps and voices like the chipmunks?
duke
2018-04-15 14:58:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 21:09:07 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Exactly the position I was pointing out a practical problem with. The human reproductive system is about the least efficient in the whole animal kingdom. The _majority_ of conceptions don't even go as far an embryo. So what happens to all those souls that nobody ever knew existed? Is heaven paved with tiny souls. Are the _majority_ of souls in your afterlife people who have never lived?
____________
Can you imagine walking around heaven having to constantly away at those pesky flying zygote with their tiny little harps and voices like the chipmunks?
How silly, how sad. The physical comes from dust and returns to dust. You
aren't even successful at addressing what we truly believe, as opposed to your
mistakes about what we believe.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-17 07:25:43 UTC
Permalink
Can you imagine walking around heaven having to constantly away at those pesky flying zygote with their tiny little harps and voices like the chipmunks?

How silly, how sad. The physical comes from dust and returns to dust. You
aren't even successful at addressing what we truly believe, as opposed to your
mistakes about what we believe.
- show quoted text -

Just your opinion.
duke
2018-04-17 17:16:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 00:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by Cloud Hobbit
Can you imagine walking around heaven having to constantly away at those pesky flying zygote with their tiny little harps and voices like the chipmunks?
Cloud continues to walk around this earth in a constant state of head density.
He who cares not to learn will not.
Post by Cloud Hobbit
How silly, how sad. The physical comes from dust and returns to dust. You
aren't even successful at addressing what we truly believe, as opposed to your
mistakes about what we believe.
- show quoted text -
Just your opinion.
Every life form returns the to dust state sooner or later.

the dukester, American-American


*****
The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did in
the OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.
*****
Kevrob
2018-04-12 15:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McMahon
Post by Malcolm McMahon
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
Post by duke
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Nearly 3/4s of Britons youth will enjoy the fires of hell.
A meaningless threat that will not bother them at all.
But that's the failure mode. I don't lose, they do in spiritual suicide that
they see as a successful life..
They are just as unconcerned about threats from your imaginary deity as
you are about the threat that Shango or Wotan are going to punish you
for your lack of belief in them.
And then one day we'll find out who's right.
No, actually if we're right then when you're dead there's no "you" to find out anything.
Which of course is totally contrary to God revealing his heavenly kingdom to us
that die in his grace.
Indeed it does. But then, as far as most normal people are concerned, he didn't.
Post by duke
Remember, just because there was NO YOU before you were conceived doesn't mean
there is NO YOU when you die and stand in judgment before God.
It's kind of mathematically weird to have an infinity that only stretches in one direction.
"Where the eons that passed before you birth intolerable to thee? Why then fear the eons that follow your death".?
What do you suppose happens these days to all those souls, presumably created at conception, that don't ever make it past the four cell phase and disappear, unmourned, down the toilet? Used to be Limbo for such, but the magesterum recently changed the system.
Line v Ray in geometry?

Kevin R
Yap Honghor
2018-04-09 01:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ritson
"Nearly three-quarters of young Brits identify as having no religion, a
report suggests.
Researchers asked the religious views of people aged 16 to 29 across
Europe.
They found young people in the Czech Republic are the least religious -
with 91% of that age group saying they have no faith at all.
The most religious country in Europe was Poland, where just 17% of young
adults define themselves as non-religious."
The figures were published in a report called Europe's Young Adults and
Religion - which was a collaboration between St Mary's University in
London and the Catholic University of Paris.
https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2018-mar-
europe-young-people-report-eng.pdf
The figures are based on data from the most recent European Social
Survey, in 2014 and 2016.
People across 21 European countries and in Israel were asked if they
consider themselves to belong to any particular religion or
denomination."
"1. The proportion of young adults (16-29)
with no religious affiliation (‘nones’) is as
high as 91% in the Czech Republic, 80%
in Estonia, and 75% in Sweden. These
compare to only 1% in Israel, 17% in
Poland, and 25% in Lithuania. In the UK
and France, the proportions are 70% and
64% respectively.
2. 70% of Czech young adults and c. 60%
of Spanish, Dutch, British, and Belgian
ones ‘never’ attend religious services.
Meanwhile, 80% of Czech young adults
and c. 70% of Swedish, Danish, Estonian,
Dutch, French and Norwegian ones
‘never’ pray.
3. Catholics make up 82% of Polish, 71% of
Lithuanian, 55% of Slovenian, and 54% of
Irish 16-29 year-olds. In France, it is 23%;
in the UK, 10%. ]
4. Only 2% of Catholic young adults in
Belgium, 3% in Hungary and Austria, 5%
in Lithuania, and 6% in Germany say they
attend Mass weekly. This contrasts sharply
with their peers in Poland (47%), Portugal
(27%), the Czech Republic (24%), and
Ireland (24%). Weekly Mass attendance
is 7% among French, and 17% among
British, Catholic young adults.
5. Only 26% of French young adults, and
21% British ones, identify as Christians.
Only 7% of young adults in the UK
identify as Anglicans, compared to 6%
as Muslims. In France, 2% identify as
Protestants, and 10% as Muslims. "
--
John Ritson
---
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Right, most of the brain damaged Brits had been deposited in America 300 years ago....
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