Discussion:
How many atheist like Christman music?
Add Reply
Mattb
2018-12-03 22:01:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.

Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter

Rick Johnson
2018-12-03 22:40:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Depends on my mood. Sometimes i'll listen and even sing along (though i admit
my singing sounds more like rough cat sex than actual singing). The other day i
watched A Christmas Carol (you know, the new one with the computer-generated
Jim Carey) and it reminded me of when i was kid, watching all the christmas
movies. I actually had a fun time watching it. Unfortunately, i kept noticing
how shitty the CGI was and that realization periodically took me out of the
movie. But. Besides the occasional "anger management" interruption, it was a
nice little flash back.
Mattb
2018-12-03 23:36:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 14:40:29 -0800 (PST), Rick Johnson
Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Depends on my mood. Sometimes i'll listen and even sing along (though i admit
my singing sounds more like rough cat sex than actual singing). The other day i
watched A Christmas Carol (you know, the new one with the computer-generated
Jim Carey) and it reminded me of when i was kid, watching all the christmas
movies. I actually had a fun time watching it. Unfortunately, i kept noticing
how shitty the CGI was and that realization periodically took me out of the
movie. But. Besides the occasional "anger management" interruption, it was a
nice little flash back.
I try not to watch to many of the old CGI movies. Even Star Wars
looks like it isn't well done but for the time was good.

I'd rather go to a Christmas concert than the mall a week before
Christmas.
Rick Johnson
2018-12-04 01:22:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I try not to watch to many of the old CGI movies. Even
Star Wars looks like it isn't well done but for the time
was good.
Now hold on a minute, 'cause that sounds like crazy talk!
:-)

I think Star Wars is one of those rare scifi flicks that
maintains its movie magic even for adults. Of course, if
you didn't experience it for the first time as young child,
then it probably will never have any profound effect on you.

I mean, sure... the large control panels with all the levers
and switches are goofy as hell, and the lightsabers are not
very scary after about, oh, age seven! But i can watch the
original trilogy even today, and it still has enough
"magic" to keep me entertained. Yoda is still as lovable
today as he was when i was five and Darth still has an edge.
Of course, let's face it, if it weren't for James Earl Jones
fantastic voice, Darth wouldn't be half the villain he
is/was.
Post by Mattb
I'd rather go to a Christmas concert than the mall a week
before Christmas.
I'd rather be run through a meat grinder three times,
generously salted, and then shaped into meatballs by some
big hairy gangster guy who just finish a stint in the
federal penal system for extortion and murder charges dating
back to the late 70's, than to suffer a trip to the
shopping mall.
default
2018-12-03 23:11:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
Christopher A. Lee
2018-12-03 23:28:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
There's Christmas music and there's Christmas music.

I like choral music - even religious choral music. As music, not
because the content. And that includes Handel's Messiah.
default
2018-12-04 02:44:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Dec 2018 17:28:57 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
There's Christmas music and there's Christmas music.
I like choral music - even religious choral music. As music, not
because the content. And that includes Handel's Messiah.
Ah, but I never considered Handel's Messiah Xmas music, or
Greensleeves for that matter. Most of the stuff I object to is the
pop that was created just for Christmas. "Sleigh Ride" is OK when
done as light classical; I especially like the syncopated whip cracks.

But that insufferable dross that passes for "Christmas Music" that
plays on the AM stations can have me climbing the walls.
Mattb
2018-12-03 23:40:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
One of the atheist in this area puts up Christmas lights and does the
gift thing. Never asked if he likes the music.
default
2018-12-04 02:47:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
One of the atheist in this area puts up Christmas lights and does the
gift thing. Never asked if he likes the music.
My wife insists on a real Xmas tree every year, so I got her these
color-changing LED lights for it. She promptly dubbed them "bistro
lights" draped them around a large bay window and uses them as a night
light.
Mattb
2018-12-04 09:08:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Mattb
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
One of the atheist in this area puts up Christmas lights and does the
gift thing. Never asked if he likes the music.
My wife insists on a real Xmas tree every year, so I got her these
color-changing LED lights for it. She promptly dubbed them "bistro
lights" draped them around a large bay window and uses them as a night
light.
I'm lazy got one of those fake trees that have the light built in.
Can't see the house from the road so don't do much in that area except
for a few at the gate. You are right they are good for night lights
have 2 parakeets and have them along the wall in their room so they
don't hit the wall at night.
default
2018-12-04 13:42:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by default
Post by Mattb
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
One of the atheist in this area puts up Christmas lights and does the
gift thing. Never asked if he likes the music.
My wife insists on a real Xmas tree every year, so I got her these
color-changing LED lights for it. She promptly dubbed them "bistro
lights" draped them around a large bay window and uses them as a night
light.
I'm lazy got one of those fake trees that have the light built in.
Can't see the house from the road so don't do much in that area except
for a few at the gate. You are right they are good for night lights
have 2 parakeets and have them along the wall in their room so they
don't hit the wall at night.
I've been noticing the roosting habit of birds. Most of them have
poor night vision so they like to stay put when it is dark. Egrets
roost in trees, the wild geese look for lighted areas and hang out by
the parks with ponds and dry land, the ducks can roost with the geese
but if they have young they prefer the surface of the lake. Chimney
swifts have nests/cubby holes, and are the first ones to launch once
there's a hint of light.

Only the bats and owls are active at night. Ducks on the lake stay
moving especially if there's a flotilla of babies tagging along, and I
have to be careful I don't run over them in the dark; when it is light
they give me a wide berth.

I have no idea what the cormorants do. They are hard enough to spot
during the daylight and can swim 50+ feet underwater. Most of their
body stays awash and only their necks are out of the water.

I have this gazebo that I mounted a TV antenna in (upside down
protected from the weather) it turns out that's a favorite place for
cardinals, and I have to lay down plastic to keep the bird shit off
the floor.
hleopold
2018-12-05 04:43:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by default
Post by Mattb
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
One of the atheist in this area puts up Christmas lights and does the
gift thing. Never asked if he likes the music.
My wife insists on a real Xmas tree every year, so I got her these
color-changing LED lights for it. She promptly dubbed them "bistro
lights" draped them around a large bay window and uses them as a night
light.
I'm lazy got one of those fake trees that have the light built in.
Can't see the house from the road so don't do much in that area except
for a few at the gate. You are right they are good for night lights
have 2 parakeets and have them along the wall in their room so they
don't hit the wall at night.
I've been noticing the roosting habit of birds. Most of them have
poor night vision so they like to stay put when it is dark. Egrets
roost in trees, the wild geese look for lighted areas and hang out by
the parks with ponds and dry land, the ducks can roost with the geese
but if they have young they prefer the surface of the lake. Chimney
swifts have nests/cubby holes, and are the first ones to launch once
there's a hint of light.
Only the bats and owls are active at night. Ducks on the lake stay
moving especially if there's a flotilla of babies tagging along, and I
have to be careful I don't run over them in the dark; when it is light
they give me a wide berth.
I have no idea what the cormorants do. They are hard enough to spot
during the daylight and can swim 50+ feet underwater. Most of their
body stays awash and only their necks are out of the water.
I have this gazebo that I mounted a TV antenna in (upside down
protected from the weather) it turns out that's a favorite place for
cardinals, and I have to lay down plastic to keep the bird shit off
the floor.
Ah, Cardinals, as a young kid the house we moved into in Marceline had a tree
outside of the kitchen window, every winter we got to watch a pair of
Cardinals nest in that tree. There was nothing quite as cheerful as a bright
red male Cardinal hopping around chirping in the morning light in the early
spring bringing food for its mate as she sat on her eggs, or a bit later
watching both bring food for the little fuzzballs that would slowly change
into miniature versions of their parents before they finally took to the wing
and went elsewhere until the next winter. We all hated it when we had to have
the tree removed when it finally died and was a danger to the house. I have
no idea how many generations of Cardinals had grown up in that tree, but the
squawking that took place when the pair came by that first year was
monumental. We never had Cardinals again living in our yard. Even dad was
grumpy about having to take out that tree, he would never say so but I think
he really missed their yearly visits, even if they aren’t the best singers
they were lovely in the morning dawn light.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“Show us on the doll where God touched you...“-Bob, via Mark K. Bilbo
Don Martin
2018-12-04 23:09:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Mattb
2018-12-04 23:48:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 18:09:11 -0500, Don Martin
Post by Don Martin
Post by default
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
If you are at home you can make a youtube play list. That is what I
have done with several of the examples posted here.

Can't get Swiss Classic on my Roku but can on the computer. Will have
to check it out for a while playing Symphony No. 16 In G Major right
now.
hleopold
2018-12-05 04:56:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“Apparently, the universe came into being for the purpose of enabling cats
to exist. (Or so the cats say)“ - Mark Bilbo
default
2018-12-05 11:05:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
When it comes to stores it doesn't have to be Christmas music. Walmart
has already managed to drive me out of the store a time or two. When
I do make it to the cashier I have to ask how they can stand it, I
can't imagine being in that store for hours. Why not just have the
"greeters" (whose real purpose is probably anti-shoplifting) scratch
their fingernails against a blackboard. (if you're old enough to
remember blackboards)

Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-12-05 13:33:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
Karen Carpenter was a beautiful, talented woman. A contralto with a
good voice and an excellent drummer. I never understood why she felt
she was overweight and starved herself to death, but then nobody knew
about anorexia nervosa at the time.
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
When it comes to stores it doesn't have to be Christmas music. Walmart
has already managed to drive me out of the store a time or two. When
I do make it to the cashier I have to ask how they can stand it, I
can't imagine being in that store for hours. Why not just have the
"greeters" (whose real purpose is probably anti-shoplifting) scratch
their fingernails against a blackboard. (if you're old enough to
remember blackboards)
Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
Unfortunately, Walmart has put too many local stores out of business,
and it's the only place to buy many things that used to be available
at small "we stock everything" shops. I try to avoid it, but sometimes
you can't help it.
default
2018-12-05 14:04:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 07:33:31 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
Karen Carpenter was a beautiful, talented woman. A contralto with a
good voice and an excellent drummer. I never understood why she felt
she was overweight and starved herself to death, but then nobody knew
about anorexia nervosa at the time.
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
When it comes to stores it doesn't have to be Christmas music. Walmart
has already managed to drive me out of the store a time or two. When
I do make it to the cashier I have to ask how they can stand it, I
can't imagine being in that store for hours. Why not just have the
"greeters" (whose real purpose is probably anti-shoplifting) scratch
their fingernails against a blackboard. (if you're old enough to
remember blackboards)
Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
Unfortunately, Walmart has put too many local stores out of business,
and it's the only place to buy many things that used to be available
at small "we stock everything" shops. I try to avoid it, but sometimes
you can't help it.
Yeah, the net effect of Walmart is definitely negative.

The way they handle produce makes me think that it must've all been
harvested with a chain saw. If it doesn't come in sealed bag bottle
can or box it is suspect. If your idea of food comes in a package,
and keeps longer than manuscripts archived in the Library of Congress,
you can shop for "food" at Walmart.

They managed to put the local pet store out of business by stocking
tropical fish and pet supplies. They dropped the fish and cut back on
supplies but the nearest pet store is 30 miles away now.

The local variety store had some idea of what fishing tackle is used
in this area. Walmart put them out, and has absolutely no concept of
the stuff that works here, just a lot of gewgaws the Chinese churn
out.

I don't care how large their mega store is there is less choice than
ever as a result of their business practices.
hleopold
2018-12-05 17:08:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 07:33:31 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
Karen Carpenter was a beautiful, talented woman. A contralto with a
good voice and an excellent drummer. I never understood why she felt
she was overweight and starved herself to death, but then nobody knew
about anorexia nervosa at the time.
Post by default
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much
of it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind
of hard to which without a doctors exam.
When it comes to stores it doesn't have to be Christmas music. Walmart
has already managed to drive me out of the store a time or two. When
I do make it to the cashier I have to ask how they can stand it, I
can't imagine being in that store for hours. Why not just have the
"greeters" (whose real purpose is probably anti-shoplifting) scratch
their fingernails against a blackboard. (if you're old enough to
remember blackboards)
We have several Walmarts here in town, I seldom ever go inside, my usual
optical shop is inside one of them, and the only real reason I ever end up in
one is that the company I used to work for gave us Christmas bonuses via
Walmart cards with a hundred or so dollars on them, I remember that about 5
years ago I went in to have them put about 6 cards on to one, I hardly went
there other than to buy jeans, no one else in town carried my size (long
legs) and every once in a great while I would buy shoes there for the same
reason. These days I have an online source that carries my size at all times.
I think I have one card left with about 30 dollars on it. I’ll finish it
off some time in the next year or so.
Post by default
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
I hate self-checkout and my usual grocery store has them now, but when I can
I use the regular checkout lines, I prefer a cheerful person over an
officious computer. The computer does nothing to cheer me up. With the
checkout guy or gal a few pleasant words and a smile almost always gets you
some in return and I leave with a smile on my face. They have a rough job, I
try to lighten it up a bit, I prefer to be around pleasant, it makes my day
brighter.
Post by default
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Unfortunately, Walmart has put too many local stores out of business,
and it's the only place to buy many things that used to be available
at small "we stock everything" shops. I try to avoid it, but sometimes
you can't help it.
Yeah, the net effect of Walmart is definitely negative.
The way they handle produce makes me think that it must've all been
harvested with a chain saw. If it doesn't come in sealed bag bottle
can or box it is suspect. If your idea of food comes in a package,
and keeps longer than manuscripts archived in the Library of Congress,
you can shop for "food" at Walmart.
Yes, they handle produce the very same way they handle everything else, in
bulk and toss them around.
Post by default
They managed to put the local pet store out of business by stocking
tropical fish and pet supplies. They dropped the fish and cut back on
supplies but the nearest pet store is 30 miles away now.
The local variety store had some idea of what fishing tackle is used
in this area. Walmart put them out, and has absolutely no concept of
the stuff that works here, just a lot of gewgaws the Chinese churn
out.
I don't care how large their mega store is there is less choice than
ever as a result of their business practices.
Exactly. Yes, they carry a lot of stuff, but each type of item is more
limited in choice and nobody knows anything about what they are selling.
(That is if you can find anyone to ask a question of.)
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“100 years from now, when one of my nuke-toting terrorbots asks you what
you did in the Great War, you WON’T have to cough and say, “I was an ATM
in Louisiana.”” Mel W. Kelly (Evil Intern/lawyer)
Christopher A. Lee
2018-12-05 17:20:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by default
On Wed, 05 Dec 2018 07:33:31 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
Karen Carpenter was a beautiful, talented woman. A contralto with a
good voice and an excellent drummer. I never understood why she felt
she was overweight and starved herself to death, but then nobody knew
about anorexia nervosa at the time.
Post by default
Post by Don Martin
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much
of it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind
of hard to which without a doctors exam.
When it comes to stores it doesn't have to be Christmas music. Walmart
has already managed to drive me out of the store a time or two. When
I do make it to the cashier I have to ask how they can stand it, I
can't imagine being in that store for hours. Why not just have the
"greeters" (whose real purpose is probably anti-shoplifting) scratch
their fingernails against a blackboard. (if you're old enough to
remember blackboards)
We have several Walmarts here in town, I seldom ever go inside, my usual
optical shop is inside one of them, and the only real reason I ever end up in
one is that the company I used to work for gave us Christmas bonuses via
Walmart cards with a hundred or so dollars on them, I remember that about 5
years ago I went in to have them put about 6 cards on to one, I hardly went
there other than to buy jeans, no one else in town carried my size (long
legs) and every once in a great while I would buy shoes there for the same
reason. These days I have an online source that carries my size at all times.
I think I have one card left with about 30 dollars on it. I’ll finish it
off some time in the next year or so.
Post by default
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
I hate self-checkout and my usual grocery store has them now, but when I can
I use the regular checkout lines, I prefer a cheerful person over an
officious computer. The computer does nothing to cheer me up. With the
checkout guy or gal a few pleasant words and a smile almost always gets you
some in return and I leave with a smile on my face. They have a rough job, I
try to lighten it up a bit, I prefer to be around pleasant, it makes my day
brighter.
Exactly. And self-checkout is actually slower. Checkout operators
don't have to look for the bar code, they know from experience how to
hold the item WRT the scanner.

But my biggest hate is that they put people out of work - who are
already low wage. It replaces eg a dozen employees with one, whom I
doubt gets paid any more than the replaced operators.
default
2018-12-05 17:41:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by default
Between that and the self-checkout machines I'm finding Walmart is a
place to avoid. They don't seem to realize I'm Not there for the
music, and I'm not there to test their attempt or experiment at
reducing their workforce. I want to spend as little time as possible
shopping.
I hate self-checkout and my usual grocery store has them now, but when I can
I use the regular checkout lines, I prefer a cheerful person over an
officious computer. The computer does nothing to cheer me up. With the
checkout guy or gal a few pleasant words and a smile almost always gets you
some in return and I leave with a smile on my face. They have a rough job, I
try to lighten it up a bit, I prefer to be around pleasant, it makes my day
brighter.
They claim self-checkout is faster too. It is, but only if you have
one or two items and the cashier lines are long (assuming the item has
a barcode and the barcode is clearly visible, etc.)

If you have a lot of individual stuff (like groceries) it is often
faster to stand on line, because even after you scanned everything the
machine has to vet your money, and if there are any little hiccups
along the way you're left standing there waiting on one of their
employees to come along and straighten it out.

The local chain hardware store is doing the same thing with
self-checkout and of the 8-9 times I've been there it has probably
worked flawlessly 7 times; the rest of the time it needed some
employee intervention. So they got wise and stationed an employee by
every self-check machine... Duh?
Kevrob
2018-12-06 00:30:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
The local chain hardware store is doing the same thing with
self-checkout and of the 8-9 times I've been there it has probably
worked flawlessly 7 times; the rest of the time it needed some
employee intervention. So they got wise and stationed an employee by
every self-check machine... Duh?
Whenever I'm at teh grocery store, and some employee tries to
usher me over to the self-checkout, I always ask them:

"How much of a discount to I get for doing the store's work
for them?"

Prices of many goods went down, and selection increased, when
old-time grocers turned into "self-serve" supermarkets. There
wer tradeoffs. Goods that may have been sold in bulk were now
only available pre-packaged, but for a long time you could choose
to, for example, buy pre-packaged meat or fish, or ask the butcher
or fishmonger in the store to give you just what you wanted, no
more, nor less. Many stores are losing that now. My local chain
grocery store doesn't have a pickle barrel, or a cracker barrel.
It does have a deli that slices meat and cheese for me. The grocery
sections of Walmarts do without those. Meanwhile, the supermarkets
usually come with a drugstore/chemists attached and many square feet
devoted to non-food goods, from furniture to toys.

I don't notice self-serve checkout affecting prices much, but
if the store is saving on labor cost, there's a formula there:
cost of installing, operating and maintaining the new tech, over
time, has to be less than keeping the old tech and more staff.

There's been a great push to increase minimum wages required by
Federal, state and/or local government in the US. Those increases
tilt the equation, making installing self-serve kiosks that will
lead to layoffs more likely. McDonalds has had them for a while.
Good job encouraging businesses to cut the lowest rung off the
ladder of a young person's employment "climb."

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Mike_Duffy
2018-12-06 02:45:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Whenever I'm at teh grocery store, and some employee tries to
At Wal-Mart, I tell them that the first (& last) time I tried to use their
self-serve checkout kiosk, I ended up tossing all my merchandise on the
floor and going somewhere else to shop.
--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm
default
2018-12-06 11:30:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
The local chain hardware store is doing the same thing with
self-checkout and of the 8-9 times I've been there it has probably
worked flawlessly 7 times; the rest of the time it needed some
employee intervention. So they got wise and stationed an employee by
every self-check machine... Duh?
Whenever I'm at teh grocery store, and some employee tries to
"How much of a discount to I get for doing the store's work
for them?"
Prices of many goods went down, and selection increased, when
old-time grocers turned into "self-serve" supermarkets. There
wer tradeoffs. Goods that may have been sold in bulk were now
only available pre-packaged, but for a long time you could choose
to, for example, buy pre-packaged meat or fish, or ask the butcher
or fishmonger in the store to give you just what you wanted, no
more, nor less. Many stores are losing that now. My local chain
grocery store doesn't have a pickle barrel, or a cracker barrel.
It does have a deli that slices meat and cheese for me. The grocery
sections of Walmarts do without those. Meanwhile, the supermarkets
usually come with a drugstore/chemists attached and many square feet
devoted to non-food goods, from furniture to toys.
I don't notice self-serve checkout affecting prices much, but
cost of installing, operating and maintaining the new tech, over
time, has to be less than keeping the old tech and more staff.
There's been a great push to increase minimum wages required by
Federal, state and/or local government in the US. Those increases
tilt the equation, making installing self-serve kiosks that will
lead to layoffs more likely. McDonalds has had them for a while.
Good job encouraging businesses to cut the lowest rung off the
ladder of a young person's employment "climb."
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
I'm old enough to remember when the meat market and green grocer were
separate entities. The "new" A&P supermarket was a pretty big deal
to hear the adults talking about it.

Judging from the traffic at the self-checkouts versus the manned
counters, this is an idea before it's time and their market research
(assuming they did any) was faulty.

For research they probably told the shoppers at a store or two that
they were doing important research, and would they tell them how good
the "new and improved" machines were. Properly biased, the guinea
pigs gave them a glowing review.

A variant of this technology can be viable.. Something like shopping
carts with RFID readers in them, or conveyor belts with readers. RFID
is still too expensive for that though
Kevrob
2018-12-06 12:28:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
The local chain hardware store is doing the same thing with
self-checkout and of the 8-9 times I've been there it has probably
worked flawlessly 7 times; the rest of the time it needed some
employee intervention. So they got wise and stationed an employee by
every self-check machine... Duh?
Whenever I'm at teh grocery store, and some employee tries to
"How much of a discount to I get for doing the store's work
for them?"
Prices of many goods went down, and selection increased, when
old-time grocers turned into "self-serve" supermarkets. There
wer tradeoffs. Goods that may have been sold in bulk were now
only available pre-packaged, but for a long time you could choose
to, for example, buy pre-packaged meat or fish, or ask the butcher
or fishmonger in the store to give you just what you wanted, no
more, nor less. Many stores are losing that now. My local chain
grocery store doesn't have a pickle barrel, or a cracker barrel.
It does have a deli that slices meat and cheese for me. The grocery
sections of Walmarts do without those. Meanwhile, the supermarkets
usually come with a drugstore/chemists attached and many square feet
devoted to non-food goods, from furniture to toys.
I don't notice self-serve checkout affecting prices much, but
cost of installing, operating and maintaining the new tech, over
time, has to be less than keeping the old tech and more staff.
There's been a great push to increase minimum wages required by
Federal, state and/or local government in the US. Those increases
tilt the equation, making installing self-serve kiosks that will
lead to layoffs more likely. McDonalds has had them for a while.
Good job encouraging businesses to cut the lowest rung off the
ladder of a young person's employment "climb."
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
I'm old enough to remember when the meat market and green grocer were
separate entities. The "new" A&P supermarket was a pretty big deal
to hear the adults talking about it.
There are still a couple of green grocers in my neck of the woods
who stock mostly produce, and some other items like milk and eggs,
a few fishmongers and a butcher shop or two. They are a small
percentage of the market. The prices at the produce stores are
good. The supermarkets charge less than the butcher's and the
fish stores, but the old-style shops have higher quality, better
selection, and old-fashioned service. I but fish at the fishmongers
but rarely, but it is a real treat. I do live on the East Coast,
ten miles from the shore, and the shops can actually buy fish "off
the boat' the way a store in Oklahoma couldn't.
Post by default
Judging from the traffic at the self-checkouts versus the manned
counters, this is an idea before it's time and their market research
(assuming they did any) was faulty.
For research they probably told the shoppers at a store or two that
they were doing important research, and would they tell them how good
the "new and improved" machines were. Properly biased, the guinea
pigs gave them a glowing review.
A variant of this technology can be viable.. Something like shopping
carts with RFID readers in them, or conveyor belts with readers. RFID
is still too expensive for that though
Amazon is doing the RFID, no checkout deal at their mini-stores,
according to media reports. I've never been to one of those.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
default
2018-12-06 13:53:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
The local chain hardware store is doing the same thing with
self-checkout and of the 8-9 times I've been there it has probably
worked flawlessly 7 times; the rest of the time it needed some
employee intervention. So they got wise and stationed an employee by
every self-check machine... Duh?
Whenever I'm at teh grocery store, and some employee tries to
"How much of a discount to I get for doing the store's work
for them?"
Prices of many goods went down, and selection increased, when
old-time grocers turned into "self-serve" supermarkets. There
wer tradeoffs. Goods that may have been sold in bulk were now
only available pre-packaged, but for a long time you could choose
to, for example, buy pre-packaged meat or fish, or ask the butcher
or fishmonger in the store to give you just what you wanted, no
more, nor less. Many stores are losing that now. My local chain
grocery store doesn't have a pickle barrel, or a cracker barrel.
It does have a deli that slices meat and cheese for me. The grocery
sections of Walmarts do without those. Meanwhile, the supermarkets
usually come with a drugstore/chemists attached and many square feet
devoted to non-food goods, from furniture to toys.
I don't notice self-serve checkout affecting prices much, but
cost of installing, operating and maintaining the new tech, over
time, has to be less than keeping the old tech and more staff.
There's been a great push to increase minimum wages required by
Federal, state and/or local government in the US. Those increases
tilt the equation, making installing self-serve kiosks that will
lead to layoffs more likely. McDonalds has had them for a while.
Good job encouraging businesses to cut the lowest rung off the
ladder of a young person's employment "climb."
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
I'm old enough to remember when the meat market and green grocer were
separate entities. The "new" A&P supermarket was a pretty big deal
to hear the adults talking about it.
There are still a couple of green grocers in my neck of the woods
who stock mostly produce, and some other items like milk and eggs,
a few fishmongers and a butcher shop or two. They are a small
percentage of the market. The prices at the produce stores are
good. The supermarkets charge less than the butcher's and the
fish stores, but the old-style shops have higher quality, better
selection, and old-fashioned service. I but fish at the fishmongers
but rarely, but it is a real treat. I do live on the East Coast,
ten miles from the shore, and the shops can actually buy fish "off
the boat' the way a store in Oklahoma couldn't.
When I was back in NY I noticed some of the butcher shops and green
grocers were still hanging on. Only the ones near busy streets
though. Growing up there was a store with food of some kind within a
block of where I lived even if they were reduced to selling bread,
ice cream, candy, cold cuts, milk, cheese and the like.

In a mile radius there were probably 30 stores that had almost
anything you might want.
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Judging from the traffic at the self-checkouts versus the manned
counters, this is an idea before it's time and their market research
(assuming they did any) was faulty.
For research they probably told the shoppers at a store or two that
they were doing important research, and would they tell them how good
the "new and improved" machines were. Properly biased, the guinea
pigs gave them a glowing review.
A variant of this technology can be viable.. Something like shopping
carts with RFID readers in them, or conveyor belts with readers. RFID
is still too expensive for that though
Amazon is doing the RFID, no checkout deal at their mini-stores,
according to media reports. I've never been to one of those.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Last time I checked, a year ago or so, the price for the tags was 25
cents and they were predicting at 2 cents a tag they'd become
ubiquitous. But Amazon probably has some clout and being first may
give them some advantages. It should eliminate a lot of shoplifting,
inventories would be a breeze, carries "point of sale" warehousing and
distribution to a whole new level, with spin-off into recycling.
Amazon is almost completely mechanized now so it would fit their
business model perfectly.

Be easy to track people, see what they wear, what their tastes are,
some rough idea as to what they are worth (along with a credit cards,
and cell phones broadcasting data)...

Only a matter of time before some idiot (other than me) decides a
micro-miniature gas chromatograph can sample the air by a person's
skin and tell their state of health.

I remember reading that some insurance company wanted to check the
feasibility of sampling the saliva from returned envelopes to extract
DNA and whatever else they could find.

Things definitely are changing
Kevrob
2018-12-06 16:17:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
I'm old enough to remember when the meat market and green grocer were
separate entities. The "new" A&P supermarket was a pretty big deal
to hear the adults talking about it.
There are still a couple of green grocers in my neck of the woods
who stock mostly produce, and some other items like milk and eggs,
a few fishmongers and a butcher shop or two. They are a small
percentage of the market. The prices at the produce stores are
good. The supermarkets charge less than the butcher's and the
fish stores, but the old-style shops have higher quality, better
selection, and old-fashioned service. I but fish at the fishmongers
but rarely, but it is a real treat. I do live on the East Coast,
ten miles from the shore, and the shops can actually buy fish "off
the boat' the way a store in Oklahoma couldn't.
When I was back in NY I noticed some of the butcher shops and green
grocers were still hanging on. Only the ones near busy streets
though. Growing up there was a store with food of some kind within a
block of where I lived even if they were reduced to selling bread,
ice cream, candy, cold cuts, milk, cheese and the like.
I don't think the New York "corner store" or bodega will ever
be extermiated. It will survive in some form or another.

Separate shops for the differrent "departments" of a supermarket
can survive in densely populated urban areas, where the shopper can
walk from one to the other. I actually have a NYC-style folding
"granny cart" for just that type of shopping. I used it last year
when I was between cars, walking over a mile to a shopping area in
my town that is just off a freeway. There are 3 supermarkets, plus
other shops, all in walking distance of each other. I drive there now,
but on a nice day I can take a dedicated pedestrian path there. That's
good exercise.

Some cities have "city markets" where indiviudal operators have
their own booths. The shopper goes from booth to booth and
has the variety of a supermarket with the expertise of the
sole proprietor. That can be pricy, but the food is usually quite
good.
Post by default
In a mile radius there were probably 30 stores that had almost
anything you might want.
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Judging from the traffic at the self-checkouts versus the manned
counters, this is an idea before it's time and their market research
(assuming they did any) was faulty.
For research they probably told the shoppers at a store or two that
they were doing important research, and would they tell them how good
the "new and improved" machines were. Properly biased, the guinea
pigs gave them a glowing review.
A variant of this technology can be viable.. Something like shopping
carts with RFID readers in them, or conveyor belts with readers. RFID
is still too expensive for that though
Amazon is doing the RFID, no checkout deal at their mini-stores,
according to media reports. I've never been to one of those.
Last time I checked, a year ago or so, the price for the tags was 25
cents and they were predicting at 2 cents a tag they'd become
ubiquitous. But Amazon probably has some clout and being first may
give them some advantages. It should eliminate a lot of shoplifting,
inventories would be a breeze, carries "point of sale" warehousing and
distribution to a whole new level, with spin-off into recycling.
Amazon is almost completely mechanized now so it would fit their
business model perfectly.
Be easy to track people, see what they wear, what their tastes are,
some rough idea as to what they are worth (along with a credit cards,
and cell phones broadcasting data)...
Only a matter of time before some idiot (other than me) decides a
micro-miniature gas chromatograph can sample the air by a person's
skin and tell their state of health.
I remember reading that some insurance company wanted to check the
feasibility of sampling the saliva from returned envelopes to extract
DNA and whatever else they could find.
Things definitely are changing
I wonder if there's a way to neutralize the RFID once you get
your purchases to your car or home? I know professional shoplifters
brin bags or with Faraday-cage mesh linings with then when they
want to defeat security devices retailers put on items. When I
was selling books in the late 90s/early oughts we routinely tagged
any book over a certain price point. Thieves loved to try to snag
$100 art books, hoping to sell them on the web or to used book shops.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
default
2018-12-06 17:33:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
I'm old enough to remember when the meat market and green grocer were
separate entities. The "new" A&P supermarket was a pretty big deal
to hear the adults talking about it.
There are still a couple of green grocers in my neck of the woods
who stock mostly produce, and some other items like milk and eggs,
a few fishmongers and a butcher shop or two. They are a small
percentage of the market. The prices at the produce stores are
good. The supermarkets charge less than the butcher's and the
fish stores, but the old-style shops have higher quality, better
selection, and old-fashioned service. I but fish at the fishmongers
but rarely, but it is a real treat. I do live on the East Coast,
ten miles from the shore, and the shops can actually buy fish "off
the boat' the way a store in Oklahoma couldn't.
When I was back in NY I noticed some of the butcher shops and green
grocers were still hanging on. Only the ones near busy streets
though. Growing up there was a store with food of some kind within a
block of where I lived even if they were reduced to selling bread,
ice cream, candy, cold cuts, milk, cheese and the like.
I don't think the New York "corner store" or bodega will ever
be extermiated. It will survive in some form or another.
Separate shops for the differrent "departments" of a supermarket
can survive in densely populated urban areas, where the shopper can
walk from one to the other. I actually have a NYC-style folding
"granny cart" for just that type of shopping. I used it last year
when I was between cars, walking over a mile to a shopping area in
my town that is just off a freeway. There are 3 supermarkets, plus
other shops, all in walking distance of each other. I drive there now,
but on a nice day I can take a dedicated pedestrian path there. That's
good exercise.
Some cities have "city markets" where indiviudal operators have
their own booths. The shopper goes from booth to booth and
has the variety of a supermarket with the expertise of the
sole proprietor. That can be pricy, but the food is usually quite
good.
Post by default
In a mile radius there were probably 30 stores that had almost
anything you might want.
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Judging from the traffic at the self-checkouts versus the manned
counters, this is an idea before it's time and their market research
(assuming they did any) was faulty.
For research they probably told the shoppers at a store or two that
they were doing important research, and would they tell them how good
the "new and improved" machines were. Properly biased, the guinea
pigs gave them a glowing review.
A variant of this technology can be viable.. Something like shopping
carts with RFID readers in them, or conveyor belts with readers. RFID
is still too expensive for that though
Amazon is doing the RFID, no checkout deal at their mini-stores,
according to media reports. I've never been to one of those.
Last time I checked, a year ago or so, the price for the tags was 25
cents and they were predicting at 2 cents a tag they'd become
ubiquitous. But Amazon probably has some clout and being first may
give them some advantages. It should eliminate a lot of shoplifting,
inventories would be a breeze, carries "point of sale" warehousing and
distribution to a whole new level, with spin-off into recycling.
Amazon is almost completely mechanized now so it would fit their
business model perfectly.
Be easy to track people, see what they wear, what their tastes are,
some rough idea as to what they are worth (along with a credit cards,
and cell phones broadcasting data)...
Only a matter of time before some idiot (other than me) decides a
micro-miniature gas chromatograph can sample the air by a person's
skin and tell their state of health.
I remember reading that some insurance company wanted to check the
feasibility of sampling the saliva from returned envelopes to extract
DNA and whatever else they could find.
Things definitely are changing
I wonder if there's a way to neutralize the RFID once you get
your purchases to your car or home? I know professional shoplifters
brin bags or with Faraday-cage mesh linings with then when they
want to defeat security devices retailers put on items. When I
was selling books in the late 90s/early oughts we routinely tagged
any book over a certain price point. Thieves loved to try to snag
$100 art books, hoping to sell them on the web or to used book shops.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
I fooled around with some of the Walmart anti shoplifting thingees,
those white plastic stick-on tags? They have a couple of thin pieces
of metal in them something like steel and what looks like mu metal or
nickel. When magnetized they are active and demag inactive. The
cashier is supposed to hold them against a degaussing coil in the
counter. I'd magnetize the things then stick them on shopping carts
around the store for laughs.

One day I bought a large TV and was carrying it out the door and set
off the alarms. My wife panicked and wanted to stop and show someone
a receipt I just walked out with the alarms sounding. No one tried to
stop me.

From a legal standpoint what can they do? It is a case of guilty
until proven innocent.

Those little strips, if I understand the things, are not RFID just
magnetostrictive resonators. Hit with a magnetic field of the right
frequency they will oscillate (physically) and that oscillation can be
detected much like MRI machine works on molecules.

Some of the RFID tech relies on printed circuits using a graphite
based ink, those things will probably be useless when clothing is
washed or they encounter water. A coating of varnish would make them
impervious to water though.

If the government or manufacturers don't leave the option of removing
or neutralizing the tags, there will certainly be a 100 different ways
popping up on youtube.

I can't remember what it was I bought but it had a RFID tag in it.
Hold it up to the light and the loop antenna, interconnecting
conductors and chip were obvious. Stab the chip a few times or break
the antenna and it would be useless.
Kevrob
2018-12-05 11:30:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch,
This is its 200th anniversary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_night
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
Mall Music horror story: late 70s, early 80s. I worked in a large,
national-chain bookshop as a receiving clerk, down in the basement.
When the heavy shopping days hit, I was sometimes seconded to cashier
at the front of the store. Our store was sited on a corner of the
center of the mall, which was an ice skating rink. The rink played
music that we could hear in the front of the store, and we had no say
over what was played. Sometimes it was a mix of various carols,
and holiday pop, from "Black Friday" on, but other times, when
figure skaters or skating clubs were practicing routines, it was the
same song, on repeat, for what seemed like hours. We had the order
of the Christmas tracks memorized.

A few years later, I had a "back office" job at another store,
ordering stock, creating inventory reports, etc, for an independent
store. Our business books department manager would put the same
new age flute music cassette on to play at lunchtime almost every
day. Steve Kujala, "Fresh Flute." Totally innocuous, unless you heard
it overandoverandoverandover...AAAAaaaaarrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

The thing is, the guy had run a decent record shop, in walking
distance of the local state university, before working for us.
He knew music. I used to buy my punk and new wave LPs from him.
He slapped that flute stuff in because it was aural wallpaper,
unlikely to either annoy the clientele or engage them. He wanted
them to spend their lunch hour making purchases. Interesting tunes
for the morning or afternoon crowds - or lack thereof: the store
was in a downtown, and weekday traffic was heavily concentrated
around folks' work schedules - were OK, but when the store was
hopping, bland was better. The local classical music FM station,
which we advertised on, was a safe bet most times.

When I worked out of customer earshot, my default was a local
student-run non-commercial FM. When they played "Little Drummer
Boy," it was likely to be by "Bad Religion."



Or "Merry Christmas..." from the Ramones.



Or The Waitresses cut, "Christmas Wrapping."



(A&P, kids, was like Whole Foods for people without money to burn.)

(Patty Donahue died from lung cancer at the age of 40.
Shit. Damn cigarettes.)

One had to know that station's schedule, and be ready to change
the frequency or slap in a tape when the next jock's shift started,
if it wouldn't be "store appropriate" music. Shoppers don't
always appreciate Burundian folk song. :)

The Sunday before Christmas, New York's WFUV plays Christmas
music in the Irish and other Celtic traditions on their
regular weekly programs, A Thousand Welcomes and Ceol na Gael.
www.wfuv.org. They archive for a couple of weeks @
http://www.wfuv.org/weekendarchives. They start at 7 am with
the syndicated "Thistle & Shamrock," and they do interrupt
with a broadcast of Catholic Mass at 11.

I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
hleopold
2018-12-05 17:29:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch,
This is its 200th anniversary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_night
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
Mall Music horror story: late 70s, early 80s. I worked in a large,
national-chain bookshop as a receiving clerk, down in the basement.
When the heavy shopping days hit, I was sometimes seconded to cashier
at the front of the store. Our store was sited on a corner of the
center of the mall, which was an ice skating rink. The rink played
music that we could hear in the front of the store, and we had no say
over what was played. Sometimes it was a mix of various carols,
and holiday pop, from "Black Friday" on, but other times, when
figure skaters or skating clubs were practicing routines, it was the
same song, on repeat, for what seemed like hours. We had the order
of the Christmas tracks memorized.
I think you may have a better (worse) Music Horror Story. The closest I can
come to that is that I live one block from the local high school, during fall
and early winter the band practices for the football season. This makes it a
bit hard to think, hear other people talk, hear the TV or radio, or sleep
(which I used to a lot of while working nights. So I started bringing ear
plugs from work to wear while I slept, they helped.)
Post by Kevrob
A few years later, I had a "back office" job at another store,
ordering stock, creating inventory reports, etc, for an independent
store. Our business books department manager would put the same
new age flute music cassette on to play at lunchtime almost every
day. Steve Kujala, "Fresh Flute." Totally innocuous, unless you heard
it overandoverandoverandover...AAAAaaaaarrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
The thing is, the guy had run a decent record shop, in walking
distance of the local state university, before working for us.
He knew music. I used to buy my punk and new wave LPs from him.
He slapped that flute stuff in because it was aural wallpaper,
unlikely to either annoy the clientele or engage them. He wanted
them to spend their lunch hour making purchases. Interesting tunes
for the morning or afternoon crowds - or lack thereof: the store
was in a downtown, and weekday traffic was heavily concentrated
around folks' work schedules - were OK, but when the store was
hopping, bland was better. The local classical music FM station,
which we advertised on, was a safe bet most times.
When I worked out of customer earshot, my default was a local
student-run non-commercial FM. When they played "Little Drummer
Boy," it was likely to be by "Bad Religion."
http://youtu.be/IScpH3jXtEA
Or "Merry Christmas..." from the Ramones.
http://youtu.be/4Y5GtaTrPHM
Or The Waitresses cut, "Christmas Wrapping."
http://youtu.be/0BIBvul7_jg
(A&P, kids, was like Whole Foods for people without money to burn.)
(Patty Donahue died from lung cancer at the age of 40.
Shit. Damn cigarettes.)
One had to know that station's schedule, and be ready to change
the frequency or slap in a tape when the next jock's shift started,
if it wouldn't be "store appropriate" music. Shoppers don't
always appreciate Burundian folk song. :)
The Sunday before Christmas, New York's WFUV plays Christmas
music in the Irish and other Celtic traditions on their
regular weekly programs, A Thousand Welcomes and Ceol na Gael.
http://www.wfuv.org/weekendarchives. They start at 7 am with
the syndicated "Thistle & Shamrock," and they do interrupt
with a broadcast of Catholic Mass at 11.
I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly listen
to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak and would have
been able to explain at least most of the above.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“Hey, you are the evolving one, not me.“-***@leavingsoon.com
Don Martin
2018-12-05 22:49:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by Kevrob
I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly listen
to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak and would have
been able to explain at least most of the above.
Actually, if you are a fan of rock and roll, your tinnitus may well
have come from the bandstand as from the Navy. Back in 1970, the
hearing of incoming freshmen was tested at the U of Tennessee: some
30% had symptoms of boilermaker's disease, and these were 18-year-old
kids who were rock fans, not old guys who had been banging pipes for
30 years. One of the symptoms of boilermaker's is tinnitus.

If you're getting free hearing aids from the VA, sorry I spoke.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
hleopold
2018-12-06 22:30:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
Post by Kevrob
I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly listen
to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak and would have
been able to explain at least most of the above.
Actually, if you are a fan of rock and roll, your tinnitus may well
have come from the bandstand as from the Navy. Back in 1970, the
hearing of incoming freshmen was tested at the U of Tennessee: some
30% had symptoms of boilermaker's disease, and these were 18-year-old
kids who were rock fans, not old guys who had been banging pipes for
30 years. One of the symptoms of boilermaker's is tinnitus.
If you're getting free hearing aids from the VA, sorry I spoke.
I only went to one concert in my life, and for the most part I kept my music
at a reasonable sound level, loud music of any sort tends to give me a
headache pretty quickly. No, I know what caused my tinnitus was, mostly,
caused by having a transformer for the radio shop next to my bunk for 3
years. I don’t have overall lose of hearing, I am missing certain
frequencies, main and harmonics of the frequency of the noise from that
transformer. No, I don’t have any hearing aids, my hearing is actually not
all that bad, I am just missing chunks out of it, mostly in the normal speech
for humans zone. So I don’t enjoy music as much as I used to.

If I screwed up any of the above, please forgive me, I just got back from the
VA where they did a colonoscopy on me, so I am sitting here with a pounding
headache, GoLytly, the prep I had to use, screws up my system so bad that it
causes me to have headaches overtime I have to take it. It was a bit
different than the other times I have gone in for a butt check, this time my
doctor, anastesiologist (Sorry, I can’t spell today) and all the nurses
were women, the doc was a very nice and lovely Japanese-American. They all
got me set up, knocked out, checked out and into recovery in reasonably fast
order, my former co-worker was happy to act as my driver, I have already
promised to do the same for him in a few months when he has his done.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

Evolution doesn't take prisoners.
Don Martin
2018-12-07 00:05:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
Post by Kevrob
I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly listen
to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak and would have
been able to explain at least most of the above.
Actually, if you are a fan of rock and roll, your tinnitus may well
have come from the bandstand as from the Navy. Back in 1970, the
hearing of incoming freshmen was tested at the U of Tennessee: some
30% had symptoms of boilermaker's disease, and these were 18-year-old
kids who were rock fans, not old guys who had been banging pipes for
30 years. One of the symptoms of boilermaker's is tinnitus.
If you're getting free hearing aids from the VA, sorry I spoke.
I only went to one concert in my life, and for the most part I kept my music
at a reasonable sound level, loud music of any sort tends to give me a
headache pretty quickly. No, I know what caused my tinnitus was, mostly,
caused by having a transformer for the radio shop next to my bunk for 3
years. I don’t have overall lose of hearing, I am missing certain
frequencies, main and harmonics of the frequency of the noise from that
transformer. No, I don’t have any hearing aids, my hearing is actually not
all that bad, I am just missing chunks out of it, mostly in the normal speech
for humans zone. So I don’t enjoy music as much as I used to.
Ah, "main and harmonics of the frequency of the noise from that
transformer" pretty clearly puts it with the Navy. I doubt whether
OSHA covers the military even now.
Post by hleopold
If I screwed up any of the above, please forgive me, I just got back from the
VA where they did a colonoscopy on me, so I am sitting here with a pounding
headache,
They were SUPPOSED to insert the scope in the other end.
Post by hleopold
GoLytly, the prep I had to use, screws up my system so bad that it
causes me to have headaches overtime I have to take it. It was a bit
different than the other times I have gone in for a butt check, this time my
doctor, anastesiologist (Sorry, I can’t spell today) and all the nurses
were women, the doc was a very nice and lovely Japanese-American. They all
got me set up, knocked out, checked out and into recovery in reasonably fast
order, my former co-worker was happy to act as my driver, I have already
promised to do the same for him in a few months when he has his done.
My VA doc (at my GS level, we get free and very thorough medical exams
every two years) recommends going to a mill for colonoscopeis. "That's
all they do, and they get very good at it," she said. I have followed
her advice and found it right on. The worst part remains the prep,
not the procedure.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
hleopold
2018-12-07 08:17:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
Post by Kevrob
I've been known to record those shows and fast fwd through the
more religious bits. The trad instrumentals are very enjoyable.
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly listen
to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak and would have
been able to explain at least most of the above.
Actually, if you are a fan of rock and roll, your tinnitus may well
have come from the bandstand as from the Navy. Back in 1970, the
hearing of incoming freshmen was tested at the U of Tennessee: some
30% had symptoms of boilermaker's disease, and these were 18-year-old
kids who were rock fans, not old guys who had been banging pipes for
30 years. One of the symptoms of boilermaker's is tinnitus.
If you're getting free hearing aids from the VA, sorry I spoke.
I only went to one concert in my life, and for the most part I kept my music
at a reasonable sound level, loud music of any sort tends to give me a
headache pretty quickly. No, I know what caused my tinnitus was, mostly,
caused by having a transformer for the radio shop next to my bunk for 3
years. I don’t have overall lose of hearing, I am missing certain
frequencies, main and harmonics of the frequency of the noise from that
transformer. No, I don’t have any hearing aids, my hearing is actually not
all that bad, I am just missing chunks out of it, mostly in the normal speech
for humans zone. So I don’t enjoy music as much as I used to.
Ah, "main and harmonics of the frequency of the noise from that
transformer" pretty clearly puts it with the Navy. I doubt whether
OSHA covers the military even now.
My new doc at the VA talked to me Wednesday about getting a hearing exam soon
to find out just how my hearing is doing, she is not at all certain that
hearing aids would do me much good, but best to check it out. I agree that
the Navy is probably not covered by OSHA even today, certainly it wasn’t
back in the 70’s. Of course during the 3 years I was on the Oriskany my
bunking area was also just under the arresting gear which also probably did
not help my hearing much. The first time I went through night flight ops I
was sound asleep when that first plane landed, talk about screams of the
damned. Amazing how quickly you get used to things like that.
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
If I screwed up any of the above, please forgive me, I just got back from the
VA where they did a colonoscopy on me, so I am sitting here with a pounding
headache,
They were SUPPOSED to insert the scope in the other end.
They didn’t say how far they going to insert it. Of course I could be
running around with my head up my ass ...
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
GoLytly, the prep I had to use, screws up my system so bad that it
causes me to have headaches overtime I have to take it. It was a bit
different than the other times I have gone in for a butt check, this time my
doctor, anastesiologist (Sorry, I can’t spell today) and all the nurses
were women, the doc was a very nice and lovely Japanese-American. They all
got me set up, knocked out, checked out and into recovery in reasonably fast
order, my former co-worker was happy to act as my driver, I have already
promised to do the same for him in a few months when he has his done.
My VA doc (at my GS level, we get free and very thorough medical exams
every two years) recommends going to a mill for colonoscopeis. "That's
all they do, and they get very good at it," she said. I have followed
her advice and found it right on. The worst part remains the prep,
not the procedure.
Yuppers, from Monday night to Thursday at 3 PM I had one semi meal. I had
blood labs on Tuesday, so not eating before that, followed by no eating in
preparation for the prep, followed by the 4 pills and the GoLytly, no wonder
I had a headache. Normally they would not have run that kind of schedule, but
they had to change my exam date from the 31st to the 6st at the last moment,
seems the docs weren’t available on the 31 of December. I wonder why? ;-) I
guess the 31st would be a bit better then doing it on the 1st of Jan.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“At least Evolution doesn't ask you to tithe 10% of your income.“ -
RHertz
Don Martin
2018-12-07 23:12:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
The worst part remains the prep, not the procedure.
Yuppers, from Monday night to Thursday at 3 PM I had one semi meal. I had
blood labs on Tuesday, so not eating before that, followed by no eating in
preparation for the prep, followed by the 4 pills and the GoLytly, no wonder
I had a headache. Normally they would not have run that kind of schedule, but
they had to change my exam date from the 31st to the 6st at the last moment,
seems the docs weren’t available on the 31 of December. I wonder why? ;-) I
guess the 31st would be a bit better then doing it on the 1st of Jan.
Perhaps for December 31, Fleet enemas laced with Everclear would help
ease the pain or prepping. At least the headaches would be more
understandable, and your state on the next morning would match that of
the proctologist.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
Kevrob
2018-12-06 00:17:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly
listen to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak
and would have been able to explain at least most of the above.
I am old enough to remember seeing and hering the Beatles when they
played on the Sullivan show. I would have been in 2nd grade. I had
4 elder siblings, who ranged from a year to 4 years older than I am.
there was a lot of 60s and 70s pop and rock music playing in our house
over the next 10 years, and I also developed interests in the strains
of music that fed rock `n' roll: folk, country, blues, jump, rhythm
and blues, etc. I sang in our church choir and in a musical put on
by my high school. I took a mild interest in classical music, and
while in college I listened to the local classical station a lot,
even when they switched to all-jazz for the overnight. The only
stuff I really didn't like was heavy metal, and even some of that
is alright. Prog-rock bored me silly. I called it "doodly-doodly
music." Yes, Pink Floyd, Gentle Giant, EL&P, the latter day Moody
Blues, King Crimson. Blaargghhh! I liked Frank Zappa, because he
delved in satire, and I even went for the Fugs. I was also seriously
against using drugs, so much so that I ignored the Grateful Dead
for a long time, before realizing that they had some good tunes.

Sturgeon's Law applies to music as well as literature.
"90% of everything is crap," and the trick is to find the
10% that isn't, no matter the genre.

I started to notice Punk Rock and New Wave circa 1977, when I was
a college kid, and a few of those YouTube links I posted are from
those corners of the map.

Did you ever notice XTC?



---
Kevin R
hleopold
2018-12-06 23:22:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by hleopold
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly
listen to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak
and would have been able to explain at least most of the above.
I am old enough to remember seeing and hering the Beatles when they
played on the Sullivan show. I would have been in 2nd grade.
That was when? 1963? I would have been in 6th grade. I also saw them on the
Ed Sullivan show. To be honest, I was never a great fan of theirs, they were
good, I liked their music, but to be honest, I could have taken them or leave
them. (That could have been my sisters fault, she loved them, and played
their music to an extreme, so I think I just burned out on them.)
Post by Kevrob
I had
4 elder siblings, who ranged from a year to 4 years older than I am.
there was a lot of 60s and 70s pop and rock music playing in our house
over the next 10 years,
I was the oldest of 5, born in 51, plus I worked with my dad, a LOT, from age
11, so music was not a really big thing with me until I joined the Navy. My
tastes were pretty far ranging; older rock and roll, jazz and blues,
classical, hell I even like waltzes. Petula Clarke to Hart, Jefferson
Airship/Starship to Meatloaf (can’t stand his politics, but I like much of
his music). Some Chinese, some Japanese, even some Indian. Heck, last week I
found a pretty damned good Mongolian Rock, I was surprised to find I really
liked it. Classical Spanish guitar music is always enjoyable. Eastern
Mountain Music, my maternal grandfather played the fiddle, made a couple of
his own. (I have no idea why he played that type of music, he and his family
had been in the middle of Missouri for 250 years). There is lots more, but
this should be a decent start. Once my headache goes away I may remember
more.
Post by Kevrob
and I also developed interests in the strains
of music that fed rock `n' roll: folk, country, blues, jump, rhythm
and blues, etc. I sang in our church choir and in a musical put on
by my high school. I took a mild interest in classical music, and
while in college I listened to the local classical station a lot,
even when they switched to all-jazz for the overnight. The only
stuff I really didn't like was heavy metal, and even some of that
is alright. Prog-rock bored me silly. I called it "doodly-doodly
music." Yes, Pink Floyd, Gentle Giant, EL&P, the latter day Moody
Blues, King Crimson. Blaargghhh! I liked Frank Zappa, because he
delved in satire, and I even went for the Fugs. I was also seriously
against using drugs, so much so that I ignored the Grateful Dead
for a long time, before realizing that they had some good tunes.
Zappa had his moments and I liked some of it, I just did not run into his
music that much for some reason. I liked the Moody Blues, though I agree that
the early stuff was better. I loved Styx. Never really got into the Dead,
what little I heard wasn’t bad, but just didn’t do much for me.
Post by Kevrob
Sturgeon's Law applies to music as well as literature.
"90% of everything is crap," and the trick is to find the
10% that isn't, no matter the genre.
I started to notice Punk Rock and New Wave circa 1977, when I was
a college kid, and a few of those YouTube links I posted are from
those corners of the map.
Did you ever notice XTC?
http://youtu.be/IXyO-CbhTfQ
Oh yes! And thanks for the link, it has been a lot of years since I heard
that one. I missed a lot of XTC, but what I heard I liked.

I will be back later, I just need to lie down and get over the headache, and
the drugs the docs used on me earlier.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

“Head up my ass, indeed. I mean look! I can see the Islets of Langerhans
from here!"--Uncle Buck
% <%>
2018-12-06 23:30:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
Post by Kevrob
Post by hleopold
I have to admit that most of this did not have much meaning to me, I was
really into music during to the 70’s, but by 1980 I had to quit since by
then my tinnitus had gotten too bad from my time in the Navy. I mostly
listen to old rock and roll, older jazz. Diane was the music freak
and would have been able to explain at least most of the above.
I am old enough to remember seeing and hering the Beatles when they
played on the Sullivan show. I would have been in 2nd grade.
That was when? 1963? I would have been in 6th grade. I also saw them on the
Ed Sullivan show. To be honest, I was never a great fan of theirs, they were
good, I liked their music, but to be honest, I could have taken them or leave
them. (That could have been my sisters fault, she loved them, and played
their music to an extreme, so I think I just burned out on them.)
Post by Kevrob
I had
4 elder siblings, who ranged from a year to 4 years older than I am.
there was a lot of 60s and 70s pop and rock music playing in our house
over the next 10 years,
I was the oldest of 5, born in 51, plus I worked with my dad, a LOT, from age
11, so music was not a really big thing with me until I joined the Navy. My
tastes were pretty far ranging; older rock and roll, jazz and blues,
classical, hell I even like waltzes. Petula Clarke to Hart, Jefferson
Airship/Starship to Meatloaf (can’t stand his politics, but I like much of
his music). Some Chinese, some Japanese, even some Indian. Heck, last week I
found a pretty damned good Mongolian Rock, I was surprised to find I really
liked it. Classical Spanish guitar music is always enjoyable. Eastern
Mountain Music, my maternal grandfather played the fiddle, made a couple of
his own. (I have no idea why he played that type of music, he and his family
had been in the middle of Missouri for 250 years). There is lots more, but
this should be a decent start. Once my headache goes away I may remember
more.
Post by Kevrob
and I also developed interests in the strains
of music that fed rock `n' roll: folk, country, blues, jump, rhythm
and blues, etc. I sang in our church choir and in a musical put on
by my high school. I took a mild interest in classical music, and
while in college I listened to the local classical station a lot,
even when they switched to all-jazz for the overnight. The only
stuff I really didn't like was heavy metal, and even some of that
is alright. Prog-rock bored me silly. I called it "doodly-doodly
music." Yes, Pink Floyd, Gentle Giant, EL&P, the latter day Moody
Blues, King Crimson. Blaargghhh! I liked Frank Zappa, because he
delved in satire, and I even went for the Fugs. I was also seriously
against using drugs, so much so that I ignored the Grateful Dead
for a long time, before realizing that they had some good tunes.
Zappa had his moments and I liked some of it, I just did not run into his
music that much for some reason. I liked the Moody Blues, though I agree that
the early stuff was better. I loved Styx. Never really got into the Dead,
what little I heard wasn’t bad, but just didn’t do much for me.
Post by Kevrob
Sturgeon's Law applies to music as well as literature.
"90% of everything is crap," and the trick is to find the
10% that isn't, no matter the genre.
I started to notice Punk Rock and New Wave circa 1977, when I was
a college kid, and a few of those YouTube links I posted are from
those corners of the map.
Did you ever notice XTC?
http://youtu.be/IXyO-CbhTfQ
Oh yes! And thanks for the link, it has been a lot of years since I heard
that one. I missed a lot of XTC, but what I heard I liked.
I will be back later, I just need to lie down and get over the headache, and
the drugs the docs used on me earlier.
atheists take full advantage of all christian holidays ,
while they run around denying christianity
Cloud Hobbit
2018-12-07 08:05:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by % <%>
atheists take full advantage of all christian holidays ,
while they run around denying christianity


And if they ever create a day off in honor of Madelyn Murray O'hare, I'm sure most theists would take the day off.
default
2018-12-07 12:15:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 00:05:48 -0800 (PST), Cloud Hobbit
Post by % <%>
Post by % <%>
atheists take full advantage of all christian holidays ,
while they run around denying christianity
And if they ever create a day off in honor of Madelyn Murray O'hare, I'm sure most theists would take the day off.
You know it.

The post office "honoring" presidents when they die, taking the day
off? With very few exceptions they are only politicians not
statesmen. We shouldn't be naming highways, bridges, air craft
carriers, etc., after them.

Watching Reagan prostitute himself for corporate interests while
governor of California, I would have trouble taking pride as a
crew-member of the USS Ronald Reagan.
Christopher A. Lee
2018-12-07 14:25:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 00:05:48 -0800 (PST), Cloud Hobbit
Post by % <%>
Post by % <%>
atheists take full advantage of all christian holidays ,
while they run around denying christianity
And if they ever create a day off in honor of Madelyn Murray O'hare, I'm sure most theists would take the day off.
You know it.
The post office "honoring" presidents when they die, taking the day
off? With very few exceptions they are only politicians not
statesmen. We shouldn't be naming highways, bridges, air craft
carriers, etc., after them.
Watching Reagan prostitute himself for corporate interests while
governor of California, I would have trouble taking pride as a
crew-member of the USS Ronald Reagan.
James Garner on Ronald Reagan...

"Ronald Reagan wasn't qualified to be governor, let alone president. I
was vice president of the Screen Actor's Guild when he was its
president. Ronnie never had an original thought. We had to tell him
what to say. That's no way to run a union, let alone a country."

Loading Image...
default
2018-12-07 14:49:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 08:25:11 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by default
On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 00:05:48 -0800 (PST), Cloud Hobbit
Post by % <%>
Post by % <%>
atheists take full advantage of all christian holidays ,
while they run around denying christianity
And if they ever create a day off in honor of Madelyn Murray O'hare, I'm sure most theists would take the day off.
You know it.
The post office "honoring" presidents when they die, taking the day
off? With very few exceptions they are only politicians not
statesmen. We shouldn't be naming highways, bridges, air craft
carriers, etc., after them.
Watching Reagan prostitute himself for corporate interests while
governor of California, I would have trouble taking pride as a
crew-member of the USS Ronald Reagan.
James Garner on Ronald Reagan...
"Ronald Reagan wasn't qualified to be governor, let alone president. I
was vice president of the Screen Actor's Guild when he was its
president. Ronnie never had an original thought. We had to tell him
what to say. That's no way to run a union, let alone a country."
https://sheriffali.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/america-james-garner-reagan.jpg
There were many times when he was speaking in public where you could
see the contempt in the expressions of his "handlers" for lack of a
better word. (lobbyists and financial interests) Then, the speech
over, they'd smile and applaud the trained monkey. Once again he made
it through the teleprompter message without a mix up. (unlike GW
Bush)
Kevrob
2018-12-07 16:05:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 08:25:11 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
James Garner on Ronald Reagan...
"Ronald Reagan wasn't qualified to be governor, let alone president. I
was vice president of the Screen Actor's Guild when he was its
president. Ronnie never had an original thought. We had to tell him
what to say. That's no way to run a union, let alone a country."
https://sheriffali.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/america-james-garner-reagan.jpg
There were many times when he was speaking in public where you could
see the contempt in the expressions of his "handlers" for lack of a
better word. (lobbyists and financial interests) Then, the speech
over, they'd smile and applaud the trained monkey. Once again he made
it through the teleprompter message without a mix up. (unlike GW
Bush)
You realize that "Reagan, amiable dunce" was a cover
story, don't you?

:)

I am a real "free markets" guy, but I've been voting Libertarian
since the day after Carter was elected. I actually worked for
Jerry Ford in the 1976 election, and never drank the Reagan Flavor Aid.
He was a helluva salesman for his political ideas, even if they were
thought up by other people. Even before he ran for office, GE paid
him to give speeches when was also theiR host on GENERAL ELECTRIC
THEATER on TV.

This article....

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/01/ronald-reagans-conservative-conversion-as-spokesman-for-general-electric-during-the-1950s.html

...describes his conversion from "liberal" (sic) anti-communist
to the conservative champion he became.

Call RWR an idiot if you want, but in 1950s America, anyone who
was reading Chambers, Hazlitt, and Hayek was at least "middlebrow."
He did have an undergraduate economics degree.

The criticism of Reagan as blind to corporate malfeasance is
telling. One of the reasons I quit the Republicans in favor of
the Libertarians, is that GOPers often _talk_ the free market,
but then dish out the corporate welfare and pork. So many
economies could be taken in defense spending, for example, but
the impact on jobs in House members' districts and Senators'
states keep them from being made. That's why workarounds like
the "base closing commisions" were thought up: to shield the
representatives from political blame for necessary post-Cold
war downsizing.

Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
default
2018-12-07 16:24:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
On Fri, 07 Dec 2018 08:25:11 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
James Garner on Ronald Reagan...
"Ronald Reagan wasn't qualified to be governor, let alone president. I
was vice president of the Screen Actor's Guild when he was its
president. Ronnie never had an original thought. We had to tell him
what to say. That's no way to run a union, let alone a country."
https://sheriffali.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/america-james-garner-reagan.jpg
There were many times when he was speaking in public where you could
see the contempt in the expressions of his "handlers" for lack of a
better word. (lobbyists and financial interests) Then, the speech
over, they'd smile and applaud the trained monkey. Once again he made
it through the teleprompter message without a mix up. (unlike GW
Bush)
You realize that "Reagan, amiable dunce" was a cover
story, don't you?
http://youtu.be/b5wfPlgKFh8 :)
I am a real "free markets" guy, but I've been voting Libertarian
since the day after Carter was elected. I actually worked for
Jerry Ford in the 1976 election, and never drank the Reagan Flavor Aid.
He was a helluva salesman for his political ideas, even if they were
thought up by other people. Even before he ran for office, GE paid
him to give speeches when was also theiR host on GENERAL ELECTRIC
THEATER on TV.
This article....
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/01/ronald-reagans-conservative-conversion-as-spokesman-for-general-electric-during-the-1950s.html
...describes his conversion from "liberal" (sic) anti-communist
to the conservative champion he became.
Call RWR an idiot if you want, but in 1950s America, anyone who
was reading Chambers, Hazlitt, and Hayek was at least "middlebrow."
He did have an undergraduate economics degree.
The criticism of Reagan as blind to corporate malfeasance is
telling. One of the reasons I quit the Republicans in favor of
the Libertarians, is that GOPers often _talk_ the free market,
but then dish out the corporate welfare and pork. So many
economies could be taken in defense spending, for example, but
the impact on jobs in House members' districts and Senators'
states keep them from being made. That's why workarounds like
the "base closing commisions" were thought up: to shield the
representatives from political blame for necessary post-Cold
war downsizing.
Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Or the un elected astrologers, palm readers or other flim-flam artists
behind the power behind the throne...
Kevrob
2018-12-07 17:54:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.
Or the un elected astrologers, palm readers or other flim-flam artists
behind the power behind the throne...
Which, when you think about it, is little different from taking
advice from the likes of the late Billy Grahsm, or other clergy.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
default
2018-12-07 18:09:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.
Or the un elected astrologers, palm readers or other flim-flam artists
behind the power behind the throne...
Which, when you think about it, is little different from taking
advice from the likes of the late Billy Grahsm, or other clergy.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
The constitution only says natural-born citizen; sanity is optional.
Unfortunately that last applies to the electorate too.
Kevrob
2018-12-07 18:23:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.
Or the un elected astrologers, palm readers or other flim-flam artists
behind the power behind the throne...
Which, when you think about it, is little different from taking
advice from the likes of the late Billy Grahsm, or other clergy.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
The constitution only says natural-born citizen; sanity is optional.
Unfortunately that last applies to the electorate too.
A Prez who was loony enough could be removed, if he suffered from:
"inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office"
under Article II, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Constitution, using
procedures outlined in Amendment 25, section 4.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_6:_Vacancy_and_disability

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

People have suggested Pence could pull this on Trump at some
point, DJT has seemed so irrational to some.

---
Kevin R
a.a @2310
Alex W.
2018-12-08 09:32:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Post by default
Post by Kevrob
Reagan's "dimwittedness" is complicated by incipient dementia
from Alzheimers. His middle name, Wilson, may have been a
bit prophetic, given the example of an ill Chief Executive whose
unelected wife was a power behind the throne.
Or the un elected astrologers, palm readers or other flim-flam artists
behind the power behind the throne...
Which, when you think about it, is little different from taking
advice from the likes of the late Billy Grahsm, or other clergy.
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
The constitution only says natural-born citizen; sanity is optional.
Unfortunately that last applies to the electorate too.
"inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office"
under Article II, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Constitution, using
procedures outlined in Amendment 25, section 4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_6:_Vacancy_and_disability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
People have suggested Pence could pull this on Trump at some
point, DJT has seemed so irrational to some.
People may be unable to distinguish between "inability" and "unwillingness".

Or even "unwillingness to discharge the powers and duties of office in a
manner they approve".

hleopold
2018-12-07 08:26:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Dec 6, 2018, hleopold wrote
(in article<***@news.giganews.com>):

Snip.

I swear that my “random” sig generator most have a crystal ball, I just
noticed my last post had this appended. Very appropriate for a post made
right after a colonostophy.
Post by hleopold
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)
“Head up my ass, indeed. I mean look! I can see the Islets of Langerhans
from here!"--Uncle Buck
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

"When your girlfriend is vinyl, her sighing is _not_ good news."-Don Martin
Mattb
2018-12-07 19:50:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Snip.
I swear that my “random” sig generator most have a crystal ball, I just
noticed my last post had this appended. Very appropriate for a post made
right after a colonostophy.
Post by hleopold
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)
“Head up my ass, indeed. I mean look! I can see the Islets of Langerhans
from here!"--Uncle Buck
Doctor tried to talk me into getting one of then instead we did this
other test. I really don't like the idea of a colonostophy.
Don Martin
2018-12-05 12:33:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
My "two weeks" was for radio stations only--I have had an experience
like yours. My last two undergrad years (in the days of low fees and
no student loans) were funded by my working as a picket for the Retail
Clerk's Union trying to organize Sears, Roebuck in Bellingham,
Washington. We walked on the sidewalks around their parking lot, and
their lot was furnished with loudspeakers for our listening pleasure.
They had three tapes played in the same order so long as they were
open. It made one really look forward to December 26.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
hleopold
2018-12-05 17:46:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don Martin
Post by hleopold
Post by Don Martin
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I exchange gifts and detest "Xmas music." generally speaking...
While I have a soft spot for "Stille Nacht" auf Deutsch, I generally
loathe christmas music, particularly as it is played on American
radio, back to back carols for a solid two weeks. During that time, I
use my Roku to tune in Radio Swiss Classic in either German or French
for better listening.
“(B)ack to back carols for a solid two weeks.” Oh you poor baby, try
working at Monkey Ward back in 1977 in Oakland, Ca. I had just gotten out of
the Navy and needed a job quickly so ended up working at Montgomery Ward
selling sewing machines and vacuums for about a year. Unknown to any working
there the head office had decided that that particular store would be closing
in early 1978, so they started cutting way back in the usual stuff, we got a
really cheap and very bad copy of Christmas music “by famous artists”
(that nobody had ever heard of before or since) that I swear started playing
about late September, all though the rest of the year and on at least another
couple of months of 1978, more then FIVE months of crappy Christmas music,
even the customers were getting tired of that by the end of October. These
days I still flinch when I hear most Christmas music, if I hear too much of
it I start turning into the Grinch, or at least I turn a delicious shade of
green. So either I am turning into the Grinch or it is nausea, it is kind of
hard to which without a doctors exam.
My "two weeks" was for radio stations only--I have had an experience
like yours. My last two undergrad years (in the days of low fees and
no student loans) were funded by my working as a picket for the Retail
Clerk's Union trying to organize Sears, Roebuck in Bellingham,
Washington. We walked on the sidewalks around their parking lot, and
their lot was furnished with loudspeakers for our listening pleasure.
They had three tapes played in the same order so long as they were
open. It made one really look forward to December 26.
Now that is a war story!

The only time I had to deal with a union was with Monkey Ward, and it really
was not the best for those like myself who were commission sales people.
Because that store was also an area warehouse the union we had was the
AFL-CIO union of warehouseman and truck drivers. Commission sales people
really did not fit in with that.

Basically it was MW’s idea that by closing that store they could dump the
union since that was, I think, the only one that had a union.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

A baseball bat, with the words "Clue Stick" impressed into the wood. Anyone
smacked upside the head with it will have a useful personal epiphany, and a
blinding headache. A sheet of paper accompanying the bat indicates that other
models are also available, such as the "Ugly Stick." - Warehouse 23
Greywolf
2018-12-03 23:16:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____

My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
%
2018-12-03 23:22:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
gee i never thought i bet this is a happy time for you it's christmas
and that means this month is all about food , thank god
Kevrob
2018-12-03 23:33:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
I remember that one. It was a huge seasonal hit in the 60s.
We learned it for choir.

I enjoy Mannheim Steamroller's Christmas albums, and Celtic
music for the holidays. The instrumental tracks are a bit
easier to take than all the "Gloooooooooooooooorria" stuff.

It's worse for me. I took Latin in high school, so
when I hear "Adeste Fidelis" I know what it means. :)

Kevin R
Mattb
2018-12-04 00:00:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
I remember that one. It was a huge seasonal hit in the 60s.
We learned it for choir.
I enjoy Mannheim Steamroller's Christmas albums, and Celtic
music for the holidays. The instrumental tracks are a bit
easier to take than all the "Gloooooooooooooooorria" stuff.
That isn't bad at all. Wife likes Celtic Thunder and Women
Post by Kevrob
It's worse for me. I took Latin in high school, so
when I hear "Adeste Fidelis" I know what it means. :)
Who do you like it sang by? Though this one would be a little to
religious for a public school. IMO
Post by Kevrob
Kevin R
Kevrob
2018-12-04 00:49:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
I remember that one. It was a huge seasonal hit in the 60s.
We learned it for choir.
I enjoy Mannheim Steamroller's Christmas albums, and Celtic
music for the holidays. The instrumental tracks are a bit
easier to take than all the "Gloooooooooooooooorria" stuff.
That isn't bad at all. Wife likes Celtic Thunder and Women
Post by Kevrob
It's worse for me. I took Latin in high school, so
when I hear "Adeste Fidelis" I know what it means. :)
Who do you like it sang by?
No one in particular. My parents had a 45 or 78 of Bing Crosby
singing it that was on the turntable every Chistmas.

Our choir did it when I was a schoolboy, and I got to
sing a solo. I was a bpy soprano before my voice changed
to tenor. I sounded like one of those kids Bing was
coaching in "The Bells of Saint Mary's."

? Though this one would be a little to
Post by Mattb
religious for a public school. IMO
Oh, yes. "O, Come All Ye Faithful," for those
without Latin.

The one I like to sing as a kid was "O Come, O
Come, Emmanuel/Veni, veni, Emmanuel" due to
the mournful mode it is in (Aeolian, some
say. I'm not expert enough to judge.) It was
an Advent hymn, so it was sung a lot before
Christmas. Advent started yesterday.

Other favorites: the Wexford Carol, The Holly &
The Ivy, I Saw Three Ships, and, one can't forget

"Arthur McBride" -

Oh, me and my cousin, one Arthur McBride
As we went a-walking down by the seaside
Now, mark what followed and what did betide
For it being on Christmas morning.....

A folk song made famous by Planxty and by
Paul Brady.



Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy."



---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Mattb
2018-12-04 18:20:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
I remember that one. It was a huge seasonal hit in the 60s.
We learned it for choir.
I enjoy Mannheim Steamroller's Christmas albums, and Celtic
music for the holidays. The instrumental tracks are a bit
easier to take than all the "Gloooooooooooooooorria" stuff.
That isn't bad at all. Wife likes Celtic Thunder and Women
Post by Kevrob
It's worse for me. I took Latin in high school, so
when I hear "Adeste Fidelis" I know what it means. :)
Who do you like it sang by?
No one in particular. My parents had a 45 or 78 of Bing Crosby
singing it that was on the turntable every Chistmas.
Our choir did it when I was a schoolboy, and I got to
sing a solo. I was a bpy soprano before my voice changed
to tenor. I sounded like one of those kids Bing was
coaching in "The Bells of Saint Mary's."
? Though this one would be a little to
Post by Mattb
religious for a public school. IMO
Oh, yes. "O, Come All Ye Faithful," for those
without Latin.
The one I like to sing as a kid was "O Come, O
Come, Emmanuel/Veni, veni, Emmanuel" due to
the mournful mode it is in (Aeolian, some
say. I'm not expert enough to judge.) It was
an Advent hymn, so it was sung a lot before
Christmas. Advent started yesterday.
Other favorites: the Wexford Carol, The Holly &
The Ivy, I Saw Three Ships, and, one can't forget
"Arthur McBride" -
Oh, me and my cousin, one Arthur McBride
As we went a-walking down by the seaside
Now, mark what followed and what did betide
For it being on Christmas morning.....
A folk song made famous by Planxty and by
Paul Brady.
http://youtu.be/PvT-ZxOiXDY
Never heard this one before not bad.
Post by Kevrob
Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy."
http://youtu.be/x6zypc_LhnM
Liked this one as do the parakeets they sing along with it.

Thanks
Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Kevrob
2018-12-04 18:32:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Other favorites: the Wexford Carol, The Holly &
The Ivy, I Saw Three Ships, and, one can't forget
"Arthur McBride" -
Oh, me and my cousin, one Arthur McBride
As we went a-walking down by the seaside
Now, mark what followed and what did betide
For it being on Christmas morning.....
A folk song made famous by Planxty and by
Paul Brady.
http://youtu.be/PvT-ZxOiXDY
Never heard this one before not bad.
Bob Dylan covered it on his 1992 recording,
"Good as I Been to You."
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy."
http://youtu.be/x6zypc_LhnM
Liked this one as do the parakeets they sing along with it.
Woodstock would approve!

---
Kevin R
hleopold
2018-12-05 05:03:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Dec 4, 2018, Kevrob wrote
(in article<23e4955e-2b07-4a91-9216-***@googlegroups.com>):

snipped
Post by Kevrob
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy."
http://youtu.be/x6zypc_LhnM
Liked this one as do the parakeets they sing along with it.
Woodstock would approve!
Ok, I have to agree, this is one “Christmas” music that I have no problem
with, cheerful and bouncy. And Snoopy can dance to it.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness (remove gene to email)

Evolution doesn't take prisoners.
Kevrob
2018-12-06 19:18:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by hleopold
snipped
Post by Kevrob
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy."
http://youtu.be/x6zypc_LhnM
Liked this one as do the parakeets they sing along with it.
Woodstock would approve!
Ok, I have to agree, this is one “Christmas” music that I have no problem
with, cheerful and bouncy. And Snoopy can dance to it.
"Charlie Brown Christmas" is on ABC-TV here in the States, tonight.
It was first aired in 1965.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Mattb
2018-12-03 23:40:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:16:17 -0800 (PST), Greywolf
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
This one?


Greywolf
2018-12-04 00:23:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:16:17 -0800 (PST), Greywolf
Post by Greywolf
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
____
My all-time favorite is the Harry Simone Chorale's version of "Little Drummer Boy."
This one?
http://youtu.be/hxzJiYlSHfQ
That version may have be remastered. I prefer this version better:


Yap Honghor
2018-12-04 08:37:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
The Japanese, the Indians and the Chinese do not have Xmas, and they exchange gifts during their own festivals.

Are you just thinking of the Christians only and not other major cultures in this world?????????????
Post by Mattb
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
Christopher A. Lee
2018-12-04 13:36:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Piggyback...

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 00:37:08 -0800 (PST), Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
What about all those Americans who celebrate Cinco de Mayo even though
they're not Mexican? Heck, how many of them even know what it's about?

Or how many non-Irish, non-Catholic Americans celebrate St. Patrick's
day?
Rick Johnson
2018-12-04 15:31:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
What about all those Americans who celebrate Cinco de Mayo
even though they're not Mexican? Heck, how many of them
even know what it's about? Or how many non-Irish, non-
Catholic Americans celebrate St. Patrick's day?
Yeah. Most of them are ignorant to the significance of the
holiday. But, i suspect their participation was never about
"significance" anyhow. It is simply another excuse to get
shitfaced.
Mattb
2018-12-04 19:25:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:31:56 -0800 (PST), Rick Johnson
Post by Rick Johnson
Post by Christopher A. Lee
What about all those Americans who celebrate Cinco de Mayo
even though they're not Mexican? Heck, how many of them
even know what it's about? Or how many non-Irish, non-
Catholic Americans celebrate St. Patrick's day?
Yeah. Most of them are ignorant to the significance of the
holiday. But, i suspect their participation was never about
"significance" anyhow. It is simply another excuse to get
shitfaced.
Most people don't need a excuse. I always thought it was to celebrate
Irish culture.
Rick Johnson
2018-12-04 19:51:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[...]
Post by Mattb
[...] It is simply another excuse to get shitfaced.
Most people don't need a excuse. I always thought it was
to celebrate Irish culture.
And you're correct. I mean, what better way to celebrate
Irish culture can there be, than to get shitfaced?

(oh, he didn't go there, did he??? ಠ_ಠ)

I afraid so. And hell, if you're going do anything, you
might as well do it right!


Mattb
2018-12-04 20:00:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:51:50 -0800 (PST), Rick Johnson
Post by Rick Johnson
[...]
Post by Mattb
[...] It is simply another excuse to get shitfaced.
Most people don't need a excuse. I always thought it was
to celebrate Irish culture.
And you're correct. I mean, what better way to celebrate
Irish culture can there be, than to get shitfaced?
(oh, he didn't go there, did he??? ?_?)
I afraid so. And hell, if you're going do anything, you
might as well do it right!
http://youtu.be/QbMWEtsffxo
That was good. Might explain Patrick Barker.
Mattb
2018-12-04 19:23:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 07:36:54 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Piggyback...
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 00:37:08 -0800 (PST), Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
What about all those Americans who celebrate Cinco de Mayo even though
they're not Mexican? Heck, how many of them even know what it's about?
When in Florida it seems to have become a celebration of cultural
togetherness for the most part. There are big parties no matter race
or immigration status. Been to a great many of these. Positive
holiday in Florida for the most part.

Seems California people are very different on that holiday. The
California is very politically correct and bent.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Or how many non-Irish, non-Catholic Americans celebrate St. Patrick's
day?
When younger always wore green on that day. You'd be bruised by the
Leprechauns if not.
Amazing Answers
2018-12-04 13:49:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
The Japanese, the Indians and the Chinese do not have Xmas, and they exchange gifts during their own festivals.
Are you just thinking of the Christians only and not other major cultures in this world?????????????
Post by Mattb
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I

Kevrob
2018-12-04 16:19:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
The Japanese, the Indians and the Chinese do not have Xmas, and they exchange gifts during their own festivals.
The Japanese do Christmas, but not as a religious holiday,
the few Japanese Christians excepted.

https://tokyocheapo.com/travel/holidays/christmas-japan-timeline/
Post by Yap Honghor
Are you just thinking of the Christians only and not other major cultures in this world?????????????
That would be a silly thing to do, but lots of people "think"
like that.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Mattb
2018-12-04 19:33:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 00:37:08 -0800 (PST), Yap Honghor
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
The Japanese, the Indians and the Chinese do not have Xmas, and they exchange gifts during their own festivals.
It was a pagan holiday that originally did that at this time of year
don't remember which one.
Post by Yap Honghor
Are you just thinking of the Christians only and not other major cultures in this world?????????????
Actually all of them as each gives a little of the past and to me at
least depending on the holiday do no harm. Been all over the world
when I was younger and loved the holidays and never thought about the
religion involved just how the people acted and how they celebrated.
Post by Yap Honghor
Post by Mattb
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
Alex W.
2018-12-04 15:41:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
JS Bach's Christmas Oratorio is one of the glories of Western music. I
do not overly care for the lyrics, but I would hate having to survive
the festivus season without enjoying this sublime transcendent pleasure.
Mattb
2018-12-04 19:31:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alex W.
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
JS Bach's Christmas Oratorio is one of the glories of Western music. I
do not overly care for the lyrics, but I would hate having to survive
the festivus season without enjoying this sublime transcendent pleasure.
Over a hour. Giving it a listen. Birds did not like the bells at the
beginning of the video they were loud.

I am listening to 'Bach - Christmas Oratorio [1-3] Harnoncourt' is
there a better choice?
m***@gmail.com
2018-12-07 07:59:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I like many of the tunes and some of the lyrics that aren't religious.
Mattb
2018-12-07 19:46:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I like many of the tunes and some of the lyrics that aren't religious.
You should just listen to the music and ignore the words. Even to a
militant atheist watching the joy on the faces of kids opening gifts
of Christmas day must bring you a little joy yourself. Pretend it is
a song from Star wars or such.
Kevrob
2018-12-07 22:08:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I like many of the tunes and some of the lyrics that aren't religious.
You should just listen to the music and ignore the words. Even to a
militant atheist watching the joy on the faces of kids opening gifts
of Christmas day must bring you a little joy yourself. Pretend it is
a song from Star wars or such.
"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a
lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny." - Han Solo

Who was right, once Lucas created the "midi-chlorians" retcon,
and gave "the Force" a physical explanation.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Mattb
2018-12-07 22:21:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Mattb
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I like many of the tunes and some of the lyrics that aren't religious.
You should just listen to the music and ignore the words. Even to a
militant atheist watching the joy on the faces of kids opening gifts
of Christmas day must bring you a little joy yourself. Pretend it is
a song from Star wars or such.
"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a
lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny." - Han Solo
Who was right, once Lucas created the "midi-chlorians" retcon,
and gave "the Force" a physical explanation.
I do not believe there is a " all-powerful force controlling
everything".
Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Kevrob
2018-12-07 23:22:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mattb
Post by Kevrob
Post by Mattb
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Mattb
I am just wondering how many atheist like Christmas music and exchange
gifts and have family time during the holiday.
Pretty much this is my favorite Christmas song.
Merry Christmas, Darling - The Carpenter
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I
I like many of the tunes and some of the lyrics that aren't religious.
You should just listen to the music and ignore the words. Even to a
militant atheist watching the joy on the faces of kids opening gifts
of Christmas day must bring you a little joy yourself. Pretend it is
a song from Star wars or such.
"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a
lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny." - Han Solo
Who was right, once Lucas created the "midi-chlorians" retcon,
and gave "the Force" a physical explanation.
I do not believe there is a " all-powerful force controlling
everything".
I wasn't accusing, just noting that SW had at least ONE rationalist
good guy!

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Loading...