Discussion:
Papyrus Confirms Exodus Account
(too old to reply)
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 08:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account

https://ohr.edu/838 
Yap Honghor
2018-04-08 08:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
No, it did not.
We know that when there was a disaster such as war or hunger, people (including slaves) would run away from their homes, in search of better conditions.

It did not specifically prove that there was mass escape of Jewish slaves from Egypt...you are too shallow to believe Egyptian masters and soldier would allow that to happen.
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 08:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus



According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.

Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/



Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).

A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).

However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.

Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.

https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/



SR
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 08:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's one man's opinion and nothing more/
Gronk
2018-04-13 05:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
That's one man's opinion and nothing more/
Here we go again... you tried to palm this off on the group
only this January!

And your link is just opinion too.

v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 08:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 08:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.

How many do you count?


SR
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 08:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 08:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach

Check the footnotes.


SR
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 09:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Gospel TT
2018-04-08 10:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:39:41 AM UTC-7,
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:30:05 AM UTC-7, sheesh
ranjeesh wrote=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:07:03 AM UTC-7,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular
literature as
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably
because of=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
its
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent
referenc=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
es to
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the
many po=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ints
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer
to the =
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
red
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The
archeological eviden=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ce
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most
histories =
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
no
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
longer consider it relevant to the story of the
emergence of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
_of_Exodus
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the
catastrophes
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical
narrative of=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This
is unlik=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ely
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
since the probable date of the composition of the
Papyrus, 18=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
50 BC
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by
centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-anc=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ient-catastrophe/
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses
and the =
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ten
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the
historici=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ty of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and
consensus of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The
broadest moder=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
n
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has pro=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
bably
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence
supportin=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
g the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the
biblica=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
l
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
account. For example, instead of reporting a
migrating popula=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
tion
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic
invasion. Enma=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
rch
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical
account, an=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
d
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
imply that they described different occasions. For
example, t=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
he
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of
Asiatics rathe=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
r
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the
biblical accoun=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
t
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
especially in the description of the river becoming
red. Acco=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
rding
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical
description =
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large
quantitie=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
s of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may
refer to=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
appearance of the River Nile in years of a
disastrously high
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
inundation, when the river is full of red earth
washed down b=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
y the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
current. It does not go all the way to actually
support the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more
likely t=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
hat
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and
that it con=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
tains
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt
prove ve=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
ry
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these
reasons t=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
he
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that
might al=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
so be
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-p=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
rovide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter
of debat=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
e. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not
true.
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Yes they are rumdum lol your such a rumdum lol
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 15:51:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?

Meyers, Moore, and Kelle are cited as sources for the claim that:

"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."

Gundlach is quoted:

"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”

Enmarch is the source of the quote:

" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”


None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.

Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.

And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.


SR
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 19:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.

If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 19:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
 https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X   

Post by v***@gmail.com
 https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X   
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/   













http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict

Papyrus confirms Exodus Account

https://ohr.edu/838 
Mitchell Holman
2018-04-08 20:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:47:58 AM UTC-7,
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:42:27 AM UTC-7, sheesh ranjeesh
wro
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:39:41 AM UTC-7,
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:30:05 AM UTC-7, sheesh
ranjeesh
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:07:03 AM UTC-7,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular
literature
as
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably
beca
use of its
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
statement that "the river is blood" and its
frequent re
ferences to
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
servants running away, but these arguments ignore
the m
any points
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the
fact th
at its
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving,
and
the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may
refer t
o the red
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous
floods, o
r may
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The
archeological
evidence
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most
hist
ories no
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
longer consider it relevant to the story of the
emergen
ce of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and
_th
e_Book_of_Exodus
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old
Tes
tament
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
scholar, there are many similarities between the
catast
rophes
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical
narrat
ive of the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events?
This is
unlikely
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
since the probable date of the composition of the
Papyr
us, 1850 BC
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by
centuri
es.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-r
epo
rt-ancient-catastrophe/
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this
text, s
ome of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
which seem to parallel the biblical account of
Moses an
d the ten
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue
tha
t it
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the
his
toricity of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and
consensu
s of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The
broadest
modern
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological
readers h
as probably
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence
sup
porting the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with
the b
iblical
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
account. For example, instead of reporting a
migrating
population
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic
invasion
. Enmarch
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical
accou
nt, and
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
imply that they described different occasions. For
exam
ple, the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of
Asiatics
rather
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the
biblical
account
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
especially in the description of the river becoming
red
. According
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical
descri
ption of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large
qua
ntities of
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus
may re
fer to the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
appearance of the River Nile in years of a
disastrously
high
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
inundation, when the river is full of red earth
washed
down by the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
current. It does not go all the way to actually
support
the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is
more li
kely that
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and
that
it contains
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
no preserved historical setting, no kings names,
very f
ew and
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it
wouldnt pr
ove very
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these
rea
sons the
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
attempts to link the poem to a historical event
that mi
ght also be
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-
pap
yrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a
matter of
debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is
not true.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the
Exodu
s,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the
story of
the emergence of Israel."
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the
invasion of
Asiatics
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst
non-Egyptologica
l readers
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as
evidenc
e supporting
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely
relev
ant
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed
exod
us.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply
incorrec
t.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections
are presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians
and a
rchaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
Post by v***@gmail.com
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
 https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/
dp/019513088X   
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
 https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/
dp/019513088X   
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/   
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers
-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documenta
ry-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
From the above cite:



"I hate to disappoint people, but we have
no evidence of a mass migration of people
from one people coming into another country,"
University of Haifa archaeologist Norma
Franklin states in the film. "I don't believe
there was a single event that we can call the
Exodus."


Egyptologist Mansour Boraik, director general
of Antiquities at Luxor, maintains "there's no
documented evidence about the Exodus."
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-08 19:10:06 UTC
Permalink
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.

If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________

Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.

There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 19:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/

http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag

http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E

http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A

http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM

http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro

http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI

http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
%
2018-04-08 19:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
does anyone have a web site for this
s***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 19:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
Hmmm...let's have a look:

1) Six and three quarters hours of video. And you watched them all? Can
you summarize the basic points for us?

2) . One 280 page book. Which you cite twice. You read it then?

3) . One 404

4) One link that says that the story was not written down at the time, but only handed
down orally for ten centuries(!) before being committed to writing ... and subsequently
lost. It claims a definite period of time for Moses, which I thought you said was a no-no.

5) . One article about a TV show, which includes quotes against along with quotes for.

Is that about right?


Selene
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 20:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
1) Six and three quarters hours of video. And you watched them all? Can
you summarize the basic points for us?
I watched them a long time ago. View them yourself
Post by s***@gmail.com
2) . One 280 page book. Which you cite twice. You read it then?
3) . One 404
4) One link that says that the story was not written down at the time, but only handed
down orally for ten centuries(!) before being committed to writing ... and subsequently
lost. It claims a definite period of time for Moses, which I thought you said was a no-no.
Idiot. In ancient times, very few people could read and write. Oral history is all they had.

No. I said the exodus time was not definite. Moses did alot more than lead the Hebrews. He also wrote part of the torah.
Post by s***@gmail.com
5) . One article about a TV show, which includes quotes against along with quotes for.
Is that about right?
So what?

You admit you did not view all my evidence. You are denying things you know nothing about. Only fools do that.
s***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 20:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
1) Six and three quarters hours of video. And you watched them all? Can
you summarize the basic points for us?
I watched them a long time ago. View them yourself
Sorry, not about to commit seven hours to a a series of videos you can't even
tell us anything about.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
2) . One 280 page book. Which you cite twice. You read it then?
3) . One 404
4) One link that says that the story was not written down at the time, but only handed
down orally for ten centuries(!) before being committed to writing ... and subsequently
lost. It claims a definite period of time for Moses, which I thought you said was a no-no.
.> Idiot. In ancient times, very few people could read and write. Oral history is all they had.

From that source:

"As we can see, although contemporary Egyptian official records kept their silence
about the account of Moses and the Israelite Exodus, popular memory of Egypt
preserved these events"

"Contemporary Egyptian official records". Sound like a pre-literate society to you?
Egyptian hieroglyphic writing was in fact fully developed by the Middle Kingdom,
two millennia BC.

So, am I suppose to insult you in return now? I'm not very accustomed to the
gratuitous insult game.
Post by v***@gmail.com
No. I said the exodus time was not definite. Moses did alot more than lead the Hebrews. He also wrote part of the torah.
If Moses led the exodus, then setting him in the reign of Amenhotep III, as your source
claims, provides a very narrow time slot for the alleged event.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
5) . One article about a TV show, which includes quotes against along with quotes for.
Is that about right?
So what?
So you cited something that is hardly unalloyed support for the reality of the exodus.
.> You admit you did not view all my evidence. You are denying things you know nothing about. Only fools do that.

Given your intellectual casualness as demonstrated throughout this thread,
I'd suggest that anyone who would spend nearly seven hours watching videos
and then buying and reading a 280 page book -- solely on your say-so -- would be the fool.

You're going to have to do better than a Bob-style list of googled up links.

Selene
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 20:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
1) Six and three quarters hours of video. And you watched them all? Can
you summarize the basic points for us?
I watched them a long time ago. View them yourself
Sorry, not about to commit seven hours to a a series of videos you can't even
tell us anything about.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
2) . One 280 page book. Which you cite twice. You read it then?
3) . One 404
4) One link that says that the story was not written down at the time, but only handed
down orally for ten centuries(!) before being committed to writing ... and subsequently
lost. It claims a definite period of time for Moses, which I thought you said was a no-no.
.> Idiot. In ancient times, very few people could read and write. Oral history is all they had.
"As we can see, although contemporary Egyptian official records kept their silence
about the account of Moses and the Israelite Exodus, popular memory of Egypt
preserved these events"
"Contemporary Egyptian official records". Sound like a pre-literate society to you?
Egyptian hieroglyphic writing was in fact fully developed by the Middle Kingdom,
two millennia BC.
So, am I suppose to insult you in return now? I'm not very accustomed to the
gratuitous insult game.
Post by v***@gmail.com
No. I said the exodus time was not definite. Moses did alot more than lead the Hebrews. He also wrote part of the torah.
If Moses led the exodus, then setting him in the reign of Amenhotep III, as your source
claims, provides a very narrow time slot for the alleged event.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
5) . One article about a TV show, which includes quotes against along with quotes for.
Is that about right?
So what?
So you cited something that is hardly unalloyed support for the reality of the exodus.
.> You admit you did not view all my evidence. You are denying things you know nothing about. Only fools do that.
Given your intellectual casualness as demonstrated throughout this thread,
I'd suggest that anyone who would spend nearly seven hours watching videos
and then buying and reading a 280 page book -- solely on your say-so -- would be the fool.
You're going to have to do better than a Bob-style list of googled up links.
Selene
I don't have to do shit for you. Personally I don't care if you accept my evidence or not. You don't matter.
%
2018-04-08 20:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documentary-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict
- show quoted text -
1) Six and three quarters hours of video. And you watched them all? Can
you summarize the basic points for us?
I watched them a long time ago. View them yourself
Sorry, not about to commit seven hours to a a series of videos you can't even
tell us anything about.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
2) . One 280 page book. Which you cite twice. You read it then?
3) . One 404
4) One link that says that the story was not written down at the time, but only handed
down orally for ten centuries(!) before being committed to writing ... and subsequently
lost. It claims a definite period of time for Moses, which I thought you said was a no-no.
.> Idiot. In ancient times, very few people could read and write. Oral history is all they had.
"As we can see, although contemporary Egyptian official records kept their silence
about the account of Moses and the Israelite Exodus, popular memory of Egypt
preserved these events"
"Contemporary Egyptian official records". Sound like a pre-literate society to you?
Egyptian hieroglyphic writing was in fact fully developed by the Middle Kingdom,
two millennia BC.
So, am I suppose to insult you in return now? I'm not very accustomed to the
gratuitous insult game.
Post by v***@gmail.com
No. I said the exodus time was not definite. Moses did alot more than lead the Hebrews. He also wrote part of the torah.
If Moses led the exodus, then setting him in the reign of Amenhotep III, as your source
claims, provides a very narrow time slot for the alleged event.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by s***@gmail.com
5) . One article about a TV show, which includes quotes against along with quotes for.
Is that about right?
So what?
So you cited something that is hardly unalloyed support for the reality of the exodus.
.> You admit you did not view all my evidence. You are denying things you know nothing about. Only fools do that.
Given your intellectual casualness as demonstrated throughout this thread,
I'd suggest that anyone who would spend nearly seven hours watching videos
and then buying and reading a 280 page book -- solely on your say-so -- would be the fool.
You're going to have to do better than a Bob-style list of googled up links.
Selene
I don't have to do shit for you. Personally I don't care if you accept my evidence or not. You don't matter.
yay
Mitchell Holman
2018-04-08 20:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians
and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
___________________
Your failure to understand that the consensus among archaeologists
and Egyptologists that it never happened is one of many things that
proves you're insane and stupid.
There is no physical evidence of 2 million people wandering in the
desert. This is impossible.
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp
/019513088X
http://youtu.be/oS6srT1IIak
Post by v***@gmail.com
https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp
/019513088X
http://patternsofevidence.com/film-one/
http://youtu.be/IwnrjU67Dag
http://youtu.be/myX3xdxfB5E
http://youtu.be/uS8bzWTfs7A
http://youtu.be/t8USn3KlekM
http://youtu.be/tzg-d8xF5ro
http://youtu.be/FxHYh3QZbTI
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-important-events/egypt-remembers
-ancient-accounts-great-exodus-002295
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/February/Exodus-Documenta
ry-Evidence-that-Demands-a-Verdict - show quoted text -
From the above cite:



"I hate to disappoint people, but we have
no evidence of a mass migration of people
from one people coming into another country,"
University of Haifa archaeologist Norma
Franklin states in the film. "I don't believe
there was a single event that we can call the
Exodus."


Egyptologist Mansour Boraik, director general
of Antiquities at Luxor, maintains "there's no
documented evidence about the Exodus."
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 19:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists. Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
I?

I have no opinions on the matter one way or the other.

I merely posted some articles that disagreed with yours.


SR
Tim
2018-04-08 20:06:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists.
Bollocks, the overwhelming historical and archaeological consensus is that there is zero evidence of some 1 million people wandering around for 40 years in the Sinai, or Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
Some being a handful on the pro side and some being the overwhelming majority on the con side.
Post by v***@gmail.com
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
That you used "some" as a weasel word shows how intellectually dishonest you are.
%
2018-04-08 20:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
......and only one name.They are all quoting the same man.
Roland Enmarch
Carol Meyers
Megan Moore
Brad Kelle
James Hoffmeyer
Rolf Gundlach
Check the footnotes.
SR
.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Those notes are not all relevant to the issue.
Oh?
"The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus,
and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel."
"For example, the Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics
rather than their large scale emigration”
" The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers
has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting
the Biblical account of the Exodus”
None of these have to do with the claimed date. All are entirely relevant
to disputing that the papyrus has anything to do with the supposed exodus.
Your claim that "They are all quoting the same man." is simply incorrect.
And you're seizing on one point, while a number of other objections are
presented that are in no way dependent on the date.
SR
You only told one side of the story.
The truth of the exodus is a matter of controversy among historians and archaeologists.
Bollocks, the overwhelming historical and archaeological consensus is that there is zero evidence of some 1 million people wandering around for 40 years in the Sinai, or Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else.
Post by v***@gmail.com
Some say it happened and some say it didn't.
Some being a handful on the pro side and some being the overwhelming majority on the con side.
Post by v***@gmail.com
If you don't know that, you are ignorant..
That you used "some" as a weasel word shows how intellectually dishonest you are.
and then you moved to richmond hill
Gospel TT
2018-04-08 10:27:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 01:42:25 -0700 (PDT), sheesh ranjeesh
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:07:03 AM UTC-7,
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent
references to
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological
evidence
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most
histories no
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Ex=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
odus
Post by v***@gmail.com
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old
Testament
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
scholar, there are many similarities between the
catastrophes
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-c=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
atastrophe/
Post by v***@gmail.com
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the
historicity of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence
supporting the
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the
biblical
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating
population
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical
account
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical
description of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large
quantities of
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
Post by v***@gmail.com
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of
debate. You=
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
r article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
I count three articles.
How many do you count?
SR
Lol we already new he can't count to 5 & now we no he can't count to
3 lol.
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 09:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
Here is confirmation of that debate:

Date
Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[49] 1 Kings 6:1 places the event 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, implying an Exodus at c. 1450 BCE, but the number is rhetorical rather than historical, representing a symbolic twelve generations of forty years each.[50][51] There are major archaeological obstacles to an earlier date such as this. Canaan, also known as Djahy, was part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt,[52] and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction" (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[53] William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed a date of around 1250–1200 BCE, but his so-called "Israelite" evidence (house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, etc.) are continuations of Canaanite culture.[54] The lack of evidence has led scholars to conclude that the Exodus story does not represent a specific historical moment.[55]
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 09:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
Date
Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[49] 1 Kings 6:1 places the event 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, implying an Exodus at c. 1450 BCE, but the number is rhetorical rather than historical, representing a symbolic twelve generations of forty years each.[50][51] There are major archaeological obstacles to an earlier date such as this. Canaan, also known as Djahy, was part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt,[52] and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction" (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[53] William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed a date of around 1250–1200 BCE, but his so-called "Israelite" evidence (house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, etc.) are continuations of Canaanite culture.[54]
sheesh ranjeesh
2018-04-08 16:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points
on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its
Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the
likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red
sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may
simply be a poetic image of turmoil. The archeological evidence
does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no
longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of
Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of
which seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten
plagues, it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it
provides independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of
the exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and
imply that they described different occasions. For example, the
Egyptian poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather
than their largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of
what happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of
red soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the
biblical account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
SR
That's bullshit because the date of the exodus is a matter of debate. Your article implies that it is known for certain, which is not true.
Date
Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[49] 1 Kings 6:1 places the event 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, implying an Exodus at c. 1450 BCE, but the number is rhetorical rather than historical, representing a symbolic twelve generations of forty years each.[50][51] There are major archaeological obstacles to an earlier date such as this. Canaan, also known as Djahy, was part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt,[52] and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction" (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[53] William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed a date of around 1250–1200 BCE, but his so-called "Israelite" evidence (house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, etc.) are continuations of Canaanite culture.[54]
Hoffmeier's claim:

"...the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries."

which are in fact centuries earlier than either of your dates, the "rhetorical" 1450 BC,
or the archeologically suggested 1250 BC.

But as estimates for the supposed exodus are quite uncertain, then you're right:
this is not proof positive.

But it's one more bit of suggestive evidence on top of the other objections
that were raised in the sources I quoted.

SR
Smiler
2018-04-08 20:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points on
which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its Asiatics
are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the likelihood that
the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red sediment colouring
the Nile during disastrous floods, or may simply be a poetic image
of turmoil. The archeological evidence does not support the story of
the Exodus, and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the
story of the emergence of Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exodus
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is unlikely
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-catastrophe/
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of which
seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten plagues,
it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it provides
independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of the
exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating population
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion. Enmarch
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and imply
that they described different occasions. For example, the Egyptian
poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather than their
largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red. According
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of what
happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of red
soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the biblical
account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
I suspect that the story in the papyrus was the inspiration for the exodus
story, just as the epic of Gilgamesh was the inspiration for the flood story.
Neither of them actually happened as described in the bible.
--
Smiler, The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made
to exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Gospel TT
2018-04-09 01:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838
Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as
confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its
statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent
references to
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points on
which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its Asiatics
are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the likelihood that
the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red sediment colouring
the Nile during disastrous floods, or may simply be a poetic image
of turmoil. The archeological evidence does not support the story of
the Exodus, and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the
story of the emergence of Israel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus#Ipuwer_and_the_Book_of_Exo
dus
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
According to Dr. James K Hoffmeier, an American Old Testament
scholar, there are many similarities between the catastrophes
described in the Ipuwer Papyrus and the biblical narrative of the
Plagues of Egypt.
Are these records of precisely the same events? This is
unlikely
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
since the probable date of the composition of the Papyrus, 1850 BC
and 1600 BC, precedes the date of the Exodus by centuries.
http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/08/07/ipuwer-papyrus-report-ancient-ca
tastrophe/
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Because of the dramatic scenes recorded in this text, some of which
seem to parallel the biblical account of Moses and the ten plagues,
it is not uncommon for Christians to argue that it provides
independent, non-biblical evidence for the historicity of the
exodus. This is, however, not the view and consensus of
Egyptologists, as one commentator puts it: The broadest modern
reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably
been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence
supporting the
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
Biblical account of the Exodus (1).
A major reason for this is that it conflicts with the biblical
account. For example, instead of reporting a migrating
population
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
fleeing Egypt it instead chronicles an Asiatic invasion.
Enmarch
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
explains that it seems to contradict the Biblical account, and imply
that they described different occasions. For example, the Egyptian
poem actually laments the invasion of Asiatics rather than their
largescale emigration (2).
However, there may be some agreement with the biblical account
especially in the description of the river becoming red.
According
Post by Smiler
Post by sheesh ranjeesh
to some scholars this is probably a metaphorical description of what
happens when the Nile floods and carries large quantities of red
soil. But at most both the Ipuwer and Exodus may refer to the
appearance of the River Nile in years of a disastrously high
inundation, when the river is full of red earth washed down by the
current. It does not go all the way to actually support the biblical
account.
Beyond this, however, Enmarch argues that it is more likely that
Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that it contains
no preserved historical setting, no kings names, very few and
generalised toponyms and ethnonyms. If so it wouldnt prove very
valuable for the biblical account at all. For these reasons the
attempts to link the poem to a historical event that might also be
recorded in Exodus are unconvincing.
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/06/02/does-the-ipuwer-papyrus-provide-
support-for-the-biblical-exodus-account/
Post by Smiler
I suspect that the story in the papyrus was the inspiration for the exodus
story, just as the epic of Gilgamesh was the inspiration for the flood story.
Neither of them actually happened as described in the bible.
Us Christian's no that every story in the Bible is true. All of them,
except for the one's that never happened.
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-09 01:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Us Christian's no that every story in the Bible is true. All of them,
except for the one's that never happened.

______________________

You mean the Old Testament?
Gospel TT
2018-04-09 05:00:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 18:28:13 -0700 (PDT), Cloud Hobbit
Post by Gospel TT
Us Christian's no that every story in the Bible is true. All of them,
except for the one's that never happened.
______________________
You mean the Old Testament?
Yeah them story's is all true, except the one's I said.
Meteorite Debris
2018-04-08 08:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Oops

Page not found.

Try again
v***@gmail.com
2018-04-08 08:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Meteorite Debris
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
Oops
Page not found.
Try again
That's a lie

In the early 19th Century a papyrus, dating from the end of the Middle Kingdom, was found in Egypt. It was taken to the Leiden Museum in Holland and interpreted by A.H. Gardiner in 1909. The complete papyrus can be found in the book Admonitions of an Egyptian from a heiratic papyrus in Leiden. The papyrus describes violent upheavals in Egypt, starvation, drought, escape of slaves (with the wealth of the Egyptians), and death throughout the land. The papyrus was written by an Egyptian named Ipuwer and appears to be an eyewitness account of the effects of the Exodus plagues from the perspective of an average Egyptian. Below are excerpts from the papyrus together with their parallels in the Book of Exodus.

(For a lengthier discussion of the papyrus and the historical background of the Exodus, see Jewish Action, Spring 1995, article by Brad Aaronson, entitled When Was the Exodus? )

IPUWER PAPYRUS - LEIDEN 344 TORAH - EXODUS
2:5-6 Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
2:10 The river is blood.

2:10 Men shrink from tasting - human beings, and thirst after water

3:10-13 That is our water! That is our happiness! What shall we do in respect thereof? All is ruin.

7:20 …all the waters of the river were turned to blood.
7:21 ...there was blood thoughout all the land of Egypt …and the river stank.

7:24 And all the Egyptians dug around the river for water to drink; for they could not drink of the water of the river.

2:10 Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
10:3-6 Lower Egypt weeps... The entire palace is without its revenues. To it belong [by right] wheat and barley, geese and fish

6:3 Forsooth, grain has perished on every side.

5:12 Forsooth, that has perished which was yesterday seen. The land is left over to its weariness like the cutting of flax.

9:23-24 ...and the fire ran along the ground... there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous.
9:25 ...and the hail smote every herb of the field, and broke every tree of the field.

9:31-32 ...and the flax and the barley was smitten; for the barley was in season, and flax was ripe.

But the wheat and the rye were not smitten; for they were not grown up.

10:15 ...there remained no green things in the trees, or in the herbs of the fields, through all the land of Egypt.

5:5 All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan...
9:2-3 Behold, cattle are left to stray, and there is none to gather them together.

9:3 ...the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field... and there shall be a very grievous sickness.
9:19 ...gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field...

9:21 And he that did not fear the word of the Lord left his servants and cattle in the field.

9:11 The land is without light 10:22 And there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt.
4:3 (5:6) Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls.
6:12 Forsooth, the children of princes are cast out in the streets.

6:3 The prison is ruined.

2:13 He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere.

3:14 It is groaning throughout the land, mingled with lamentations

12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive that was in the prison.
12:30 ...there was not a house where there was not one dead.

12:30 ...there was a great cry in Egypt.

7:1 Behold, the fire has mounted up on high. Its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land. 13:21 ... by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night.
3:2 Gold and lapis lazuli, silver and malachite, carnelian and bronze... are fastened on the neck of female slaves. 12:35-36 ...and they requested from the Egyptians, silver and gold articles and clothing. And God made the Egyptians favour them and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth.
Print
© 1995-2018 Ohr Somayach International - All rights reserved.

Articles may be distributed to another person intact without prior permission. We also encourage you to include this material in other publications, such as synagogue or school newsletters. Hardcopy or electronic. However, we ask that you contact us beforehand for permission in advance at ***@ohr.edu and credit for the source as Ohr Somayach Institutions www.ohr.edu
Cloud Hobbit
2018-04-08 09:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
_______________

No it doesn't. We went over this the last time you brought it up.

It proves nothing about the Exodus.

There is nothing that confirms the Exodus was a real event.
Malte Runz
2018-04-08 10:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
What are you talking about? There is not a word about the Exodus in
the text.
--
Malte Runz
Mitchell Holman
2018-04-08 12:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
The Egyptians kept very good records of the
deaths of their Pharaohs, and none of them even
mention one who died chasing Hebrew refugees.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharaohs
Davej
2018-04-08 19:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Papyrus confirms Exodus Account
https://ohr.edu/838 
"Ipuwer has been often put forward in popular literature as confirmation of the Biblical account, most notably because of its statement that "the river is blood" and its frequent references to servants running away, but these arguments ignore the many points on which Ipuwer contradicts Exodus, such as the fact that its Asiatics are arriving in Egypt rather than leaving, and the likelihood that the "river is blood" phrase may refer to the red sediment colouring the Nile during disastrous floods, or may simply be a poetic image of turmoil.[10] The archeological evidence does not support the story of the Exodus, and most histories no longer consider it relevant to the story of the emergence of Israel.[11][12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipuwer_Papyrus
Loading...