Discussion:
The difference between happiness and meaning
(too old to reply)
a***@gmail.com
2019-02-13 12:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need. Meaning is about integrating all of time, and giving to others.

Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor

"A balanced life is best"
Kevrob
2019-02-13 13:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?

Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?

Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?

The keyword is "Eudaimonia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.

Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]

Another Lal pronouncement with little reasoning behind it.
Are you bucking for prophet, or guru?
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"A balanced life is best"
Why the quotes? are you referencing Aristotle's idea of the mean?

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
a***@gmail.com
2019-02-13 14:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?
Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?
Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?
The keyword is "Eudaimonia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.
Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]
Another Lal pronouncement with little reasoning behind it.
Are you bucking for prophet, or guru?
The post is based on research from a book by Pinker and a blog by Scientific American.

In my own life I have had limited happiness but a lot of meaning. This is because of lack of wealth, health, truth, beauty, and morality most of my life. But I have had meaning because of the role I have played as a thought leader much of my life.

I agree with some of the things you claim make you happy. But you disrespect those like Socrates or Gandhi who lived their lives to serve others, and attained immortality through martyrdom.

Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor

"Do you know what I am?"
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"A balanced life is best"
Why the quotes? are you referencing Aristotle's idea of the mean?
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Kevrob
2019-02-13 19:40:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?
Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?
Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?
The keyword is "Eudaimonia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.
Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]
Another Lal pronouncement with little reasoning behind it.
Are you bucking for prophet, or guru?
The post is based on research from a book by Pinker and a blog by Scientific American.
If so, mentioning that might be helpful. Do you mean Steven
Pinker?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker

He has written some interesting thongs vis a vis psychology
and morality.

Here's a sample:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?

or....


https://outline.com/wda9XB which is an ad-lite version.
Post by a***@gmail.com
In my own life I have had limited happiness but a lot of meaning. This is because of lack of wealth, health, truth, beauty, and morality most of my life. But I have had meaning because of the role I have played as a thought leader much of my life.
I agree with some of the things you claim make you happy. But you disrespect those like Socrates....
We know little of Socrates. Most of what is attributed to him we
read through the lens of Plato, who I like a lot less than Aristotle.
Another student of his, Xenophone, mentioned him, and Aristphones
parodied him in his plays.

....or Gandhi who lived their lives to serve others,

Gandhi fought (non-violently) for his own freedom, as well
as that of others. He also had a lot of help. Self-interest
and mutual aid.

He also, infamously, suggested the Jews shoouldn't fight back against
Hitler. What was he smoking?
Post by a***@gmail.com
and attained immortality through martyrdom.
Not actual immortality, just the poetic kind.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"Do you know what I am?"
No, should I? Who are you quoting, now?

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
a***@gmail.com
2019-02-14 05:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?
Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?
Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?
The keyword is "Eudaimonia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.
Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]
Another Lal pronouncement with little reasoning behind it.
Are you bucking for prophet, or guru?
The post is based on research from a book by Pinker and a blog by Scientific American.
If so, mentioning that might be helpful. Do you mean Steven
Pinker?
Yes, I am near to completing his latest book, which is a positive survey of the current human condition.
Post by Kevrob
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
He has written some interesting thongs vis a vis psychology
and morality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?
or....
https://outline.com/wda9XB which is an ad-lite version.
Post by a***@gmail.com
In my own life I have had limited happiness but a lot of meaning. This is because of lack of wealth, health, truth, beauty, and morality most of my life. But I have had meaning because of the role I have played as a thought leader much of my life.
I agree with some of the things you claim make you happy. But you disrespect those like Socrates....
We know little of Socrates. Most of what is attributed to him we
read through the lens of Plato, who I like a lot less than Aristotle.
Another student of his, Xenophone, mentioned him, and Aristphones
parodied him in his plays.
....or Gandhi who lived their lives to serve others,
Gandhi fought (non-violently) for his own freedom, as well
as that of others. He also had a lot of help. Self-interest
and mutual aid.
I believe that we may be mostly intrinsically selfish, due to the evolutionary nature of our morals. But people who are leaders can find ways of aligning their interests with the interests of larger groups.
Post by Kevrob
He also, infamously, suggested the Jews shoouldn't fight back against
Hitler. What was he smoking?
Post by a***@gmail.com
and attained immortality through martyrdom.
Not actual immortality, just the poetic kind.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"Do you know what I am?"
No, should I? Who are you quoting, now?
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor

"Who or what do you serve?"
Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
JWS
2019-02-14 10:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?
Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?
Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?
The keyword is "Eudaimonia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.
Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]
Another Lal pronouncement with little reasoning behind it.
Are you bucking for prophet, or guru?
The post is based on research from a book by Pinker and a blog by Scientific American.
If so, mentioning that might be helpful. Do you mean Steven
Pinker?
Yes, I am near to completing his latest book, which is a positive survey of the current human condition.
Post by Kevrob
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
He has written some interesting thongs vis a vis psychology
and morality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?
or....
https://outline.com/wda9XB which is an ad-lite version.
Post by a***@gmail.com
In my own life I have had limited happiness but a lot of meaning. This is because of lack of wealth, health, truth, beauty, and morality most of my life. But I have had meaning because of the role I have played as a thought leader much of my life.
I agree with some of the things you claim make you happy. But you disrespect those like Socrates....
We know little of Socrates. Most of what is attributed to him we
read through the lens of Plato, who I like a lot less than Aristotle.
Another student of his, Xenophone, mentioned him, and Aristphones
parodied him in his plays.
....or Gandhi who lived their lives to serve others,
Gandhi fought (non-violently) for his own freedom, as well
as that of others. He also had a lot of help. Self-interest
and mutual aid.
I believe that we may be mostly intrinsically selfish, due to the evolutionary nature of our morals. But people who are leaders can find ways of aligning their interests with the interests of larger groups.
Post by Kevrob
He also, infamously, suggested the Jews shoouldn't fight back against
Hitler. What was he smoking?
Post by a***@gmail.com
and attained immortality through martyrdom.
Not actual immortality, just the poetic kind.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"Do you know what I am?"
No, should I? Who are you quoting, now?
Abhinav Lal
Writer & Investor
"Who or what do you serve?"
Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310
So your "meaning" is that you are un"happy".
Cheer up.

Alex W.
2019-02-13 23:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Happiness is about living in the present and taking what you need.
Is it? Is it about relationships with other people - romantic
love; family, if you have one; friends?
Is it about having fulfilling work to do, for pay or
otherwise? Is it about crating or enjoying art, music,
literature and other intellectual pursuits?
Is it about enjoying good health and the skills and talents
of our minds and bodies?
The keyword is "Eudaimonia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
Or, in a more narrow context, the "work-life balance" so beloved of
today's social commentators and self-help book authors....

They key is that neither happiness nor meaning can (nor should) be
prescriptive. The answer must always be an individual choice. If a
woman finds happiness and meaning in keeping the home and raising a
brood of children, that is her legitimate choice -- never mind what the
feminists of any wave demand. If a man finds meaning and happiness in
amassing ever more zeroes before the decimal point on his balance sheet,
that, too, is his personal choice. And when someone finds happiness and
meaning in dedicating their life to unforced and absolute altruism, I
applaud and admire their sense of vocation.

The key, though, is always the freedom of choice.

Even when, sometimes, people choose to find happiness and meaning in
being utter arseholes....
Post by Kevrob
Post by a***@gmail.com
Meaning is about integrating all of time,
That's woo-woo nonsense.
Post by a***@gmail.com
...and giving to others.
Altruism doesn't motivate me. Non-predatory self-interest
and mutual aid would be a minimum, before we start worrying
about helping others.
Mandatory altruism, to the point of destroying one's self on
the altar of Others, has been what religion has been selling for
centuries. [The folks running these scams are often raking it
in, though.]
Which, for all but the last two centuries of history, was a viable and
even necessary strategy for survival.

The problem is that institutions -- religious and political -- are very
adept indeed at surviving themselves even long after their purpose and
need is gone. Whether we are talking churches or trade unions, they
cling on and are loathe to change and adapt. Too many people are
involved who have invested too much of themselves to easily allow the
costly changes necessary. Note: altruism is all too often demanded of
others rather than of oneself.
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