Discussion:
Who can find God?
(too old to reply)
Jahnu
2021-06-07 03:58:53 UTC
Permalink
You don't find God. God finds you. God is in the hearts of all living
entities, and as soon as He sees a genuine desire develop in the heart
of a person to know Him, God will manifest Himself. IOW, God reserves
the right to not manifest Himself to the foolish and unintelligent.

God can only be found by someone to whom God shows Himself.
Those people who say - I see no evidence of God - God will stay away
from such persons. He will cover Himself by His yoga-maya.

The difference between between yoga-maya and maha-maya is that
yoga-maya is God's internal potency that covers Himself. Maha-maya is
God's external potency -His illusory potency, which covers the living
entities in ignorance.

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg 7.25)

"The Supreme Lord is not obtained by expert explanations, by vast
intelligence, or even by much hearing. He is obtained only by one whom
He Himself chooses. To such a person, He manifests His own form."
(Mundaka Upanisad 3.2.3)
John Locke
2021-06-07 06:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Who can find God?
...my pet cock roach Freddy has found "God"..."Freddy,
damn it, I told you to stay out of the turpentine !!"


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"There is not enough love and kindness in the world to give any of
it away to imaginary beings." - Friederich Nietzsche
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JWS
2021-06-07 09:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Who can find God?
Any one who wants to hide from responsibility.
Belief in a god is a "cover" statement that
automatically attempts to identify the claimant
as a "good guy", a "moral guy" , the "best kind of
guy". Nothing else is needed. You can be an asshole,
a monster, or an actual "good guy". You are
automatically elevated to a higher "moral" with no
need to demonstrate any reason for that position.
You are a default member of some special club by
fiat, no need to actually be worthy of anything.
As we have see on other threads in this group, those
who claim god as their belief basis hardly ever agree
on details. They don't agree on what god wants, on
what god says, or on what god even means. It's a
clown show from start to finish.
So "finding god" is whatever you want it to be. And
that makes the whole thing meaningless.
hhya...@gmail.com
2021-06-07 09:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
You don't find God. God finds you.
There is no such creature or beast in this universe!!!
Harry Krishna
2021-06-07 13:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
You don't find God.
Or Santa Claus, or Darth Vader, or Bilbo Baggins, or unicorns, or
leprechauns... fuck, but you're an idiot, Jesper.
Jahnu
2021-06-08 03:12:06 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
The best proof of God, in my mind, is logic, reason and common sense.
Anyone with a brain can understand the world didn't create itself out
of a bunch of chemicals.

Obviously, nobody is an atheist due to lack of evidence of God. In
fact, the last thing an atheist wants, is proof of God. The whole
world is proof of an intelligent designer. One becomes an atheist when
one does not want God in his life, not because there is no proof of
God. It's as simple as that.

I mean, I can understand why someone would be against certain
religions. The theology of the Abrahamic religions, for instance, is
largely sectarian nonsense.

But to deny the obvious intelligent design observable in nature, to
actually suggest the world created itself out of a bunch of chemicals,
that's just plain dumb.

Of course, only God can prove who He is, but there is ample empiric
proof of His existence. The irreducible complexity of living organisms
is the logical proof of the Intelligent Design of nature. So ID is a
direct, observable fact of nature. Thus, the irreducible complexity in
a single cell, is the empirical proof of God.

Irreducible complexity is like a car engine, where all the parts of
the engine are interdependent in their functions. The cylinders
function only in combination with the pistons, the pistons function
only in connection with the spark plugs, the spark plugs depend on the
electric system for their function, and son on. All the components of
the engine work only in combination with each-other.

In other words, a car engine is only functional as a complete unit. If
one component fails, the whole engine fails. Hence the term
irreducible complexity. Irreducible Complexity disproves the idea of
evolution - that the world evolved naturally with no principle of a
guiding intelligence behind it.

IOW, the idea that abiogenesis and evolution, with no guiding
intelligence behind it, produced all the living species, is basically
an affront to a working intellect.

To say, like atheists do, that the universe created itself out of a
bunch of chemicals, is like saying that a Mercedes Benz created itself
without any creative intelligence behind it.

Professor Werner Gitt, who works in the field of information science
writes:

"There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to
information, neither is there any physical process or material
phenomenon known that can do this. All languages, alphabets, and codes
that we know of, as well as the information spoken or written in them,
originated in minds. The blind faith of the atheist that the first
life was an exception to this fact is contrary to all known evidence."

(Werner Gitt, In the Beginning Was Information, 1997, p. 79)

In my mind, however, apart from the fact that the Intelligent Design
observable in nature is proof of God, and, say, if one's brain is not
equipped to handle logic and reason, the best proof of God is that you
become totally happy by adding Krishna to your life.

Someone may object - you also become happy by smoking some dope or
winning the lottery, or having sex, what's the difference? How is that
proof of God?

The thing about bodily or mental pleasures, though, is that they don't
make the soul happy. Connecting to Krishna makes the soul happy, and
contrary to sense-gratification, which always ends in misery and
leaves you frustrated, the happiness of the soul is a constant fact.
Not only does the happiness of the soul not end, it only increases
more and more. It's a deep and lasting bliss that is never interrupted
by suffering.

Sure, you may break a leg, your wife may leave you, your children may
think you're a complete loser, or you may be depressed due to lack of
money, but the deep satisfaction of Krishna consciousness, once
established, never leaves the heart. And that's the proof that Krishna
is God.

So, as the saying goes - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12
Harry Krishna
2021-06-08 13:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
Anyone with a brain can understand the world didn't create itself out
of a bunch of chemicals.
No one has ever claimed such a thing, because chemicals didn't exist
before the universe, you fucking idiot.
Jahnu
2021-06-11 02:31:42 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
Evil exists only if God exists. If there is no God to define good and
evil for us, good and evil shall remain forever based on human
opinion.

In the Vedic system good and evil are defined by God, and conducted by
nature's three modes - goodness, passion and ignorance. The more I'm
into the mode of ignorance (tama-guna), the more ignorant or evil I
shall become.

And the more I cultivate the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), the more
godly I shall become.

Krishna says:

Material nature consists of three modes - goodness, passion and
ignorance. When the eternal living entity comes in contact with
nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, he becomes conditioned by these modes.
- Bg 14.5

O sinless one, the mode of goodness, being purer than the others, is
illuminating, and it frees one from all sinful reactions. Those
situated in that mode become conditioned by a sense of happiness and
knowledge. - Bg 14.6

The mode of passion is born of unlimited desires and longings, O son
of Kunti, and because of this the embodied living entity is bound to
material fruitive actions. - Bg 14.7

O son of Bharata, know that the mode of darkness, born of ignorance,
is the delusion of all embodied living entities. The results of this
mode are madness, indolence and sleep, which bind the conditioned
soul. - Bg 14.8

O son of Bharata, the mode of goodness conditions one to happiness;
passion conditions one to fruitive action; and ignorance, covering
one's knowledge, binds one to madness. - Bg 14.9

Sometimes the mode of goodness becomes prominent, defeating the modes
of passion and ignorance, O son of Bharata. Sometimes the mode of
passion defeats goodness and ignorance, and at other times ignorance
defeats goodness and passion. In this way there is always competition
for supremacy. - Bg 14.10

The manifestation of the mode of goodness can be experienced when all
the gates of the body are illuminated by knowledge. - Bg 14.11

O chief of the Bharatas, when there is an increase in the mode of
passion the symptoms of great attachment, fruitive activity, intense
endeavor, and uncontrollable desire and hankering develop. -Bg 14.12

When there is an increase in the mode of ignorance, O son of Kuru,
darkness, inertia, madness and illusion are manifested. - Bg 14.13

When one dies in the mode of goodness, he attains to the pure higher
planets of the great sages. -Bg 14.14

When one dies in the mode of passion, he takes birth among those
engaged in fruitive activities; and when one dies in the mode of
ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom. - Bg 14.15

The result of pious action is pure and is said to be in the mode of
goodness. But action done in the mode of passion results in misery,
and action performed in the mode of ignorance results in foolishness.
- Bg 14.16

From the mode of goodness, real knowledge develops; from the mode of
passion, greed develops; and from the mode of ignorance develop
foolishness, madness and illusion. - Bg 14.17

Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the
higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly
planets; and those in the abominable mode of ignorance go down to the
hellish worlds. - Bg 14.18

When one properly sees that in all activities no other performer is at
work than these modes of nature and he knows the Supreme Lord, who is
transcendental to all these modes, he attains My spiritual nature. -Bg
14.19

When the embodied being is able to transcend these three modes
associated with the material body, he can become free from birth,
death, old age and their distresses and can enjoy nectar even in this
life. -Bg 14.20
Harry Krishna
2021-06-11 13:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
In the Vedic system good and evil are defined by God
That's true of all theistic religions, Jesper. So what?
Jahnu
2021-06-11 22:04:09 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
God is fully enjoying His pastimes in the spiritual world, He has
absolutely no interest in His material creation. When Krishna wants to
play God, He expands as Vishnu who then creates material nature.
Nature works according to strict laws, and in nature the embodied
living beings suffer or enjoy according to their activities.

Material creation is under the law of karma, and God doesn't interfere
with that. In the material world we are free to be good or evil as we
like, and reap the results accordingly.

Mean-while, while we live and die repeatedly in material creation,
Krishna is enjoying His eternal pastimes. Krishna is even so kind that
he invites us to come back home and take part in His eternal pastimes.
Only Krishna can release us from samsara - the endless cycle of birth
and death.

Our real life begins when we petition Krishna to release us from
samsara and allow us to rejoin Him Goloka (Vaikuntha).

Krishna says:

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all
are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But
one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again.
(Bg 8.16)

By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration
of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his night. (Bg
8.17)

At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest
from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they
are merged into the unmanifest again. (Bg 8.18)

Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come
into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly
annihilated. (Bg 8.19)

Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is
transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is
supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is
annihilated, that part remains as it is. (Bg 8.20)
Harry Krishna
2021-06-15 12:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
God is fully enjoying
watching his dumbass devotee run away from a simple question. Try
again, Jesper.
Jahnu
2021-06-16 03:21:09 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
The best proof of God, in my mind, is logic, reason and common sense.
Anyone with a brain can understand the world didn’t create itself out
of a bunch of chemicals.

Obviously, nobody is an atheist due to lack of evidence of God. In
fact, the last thing an atheist wants, is proof of God. The whole
world is proof of an intelligent designer. One becomes an atheist when
one does not want God in his life, not because there is no proof of
God. It’s as simple as that.

I mean, I can understand why someone would be against certain
religions. The theology of the Abrahamic religions, for instance, is
largely sectarian nonsense.

But to deny the obvious intelligent design observable in nature, to
actually suggest the world created itself out of a bunch of chemicals,
that’s just plain dumb.

Of course, only God can prove who He is, but there is ample empiric
proof of His existence. The irreducible complexity of living organisms
is the logical proof of the Intelligent Design of nature. So ID is a
direct, observable fact of nature. Thus, ID comprises the empirical
proof of God.

It's just so ridiculous, in academic circles, ID is considered
unscientific. Seriously. In a group of big, big PHDs you can't tell
them, they are unintelligent fools, even though it's an empiric fact.


Irreducible complexity is like a car engine, where all the parts of
the engine are interdependent in their functions. The cylinders
function only in combination with the pistons, the pistons function
only in connection with the spark plugs, the spark plugs depend on the
electric system for their function, and son on. All the components of
the engine work only in combination with each-other.

In other words, a car engine is only functional as a complete unit. If
one component fails, the whole engine fails. Hence the term
irreducible complexity.

IOW, the idea that abiogenesis and evolution, with no guiding
intelligence behind it, produced all the living species, is basically
an affront to a working intellect.

To say, like atheists do, that the universe created itself out of a
bunch of chemicals, is like saying that a Mercedes Benz created itself
without any creative intelligence behind it.

Professor Werner Gitt, who works in the field of information science
writes:

“There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to
information, neither is there any physical process or material
phenomenon known that can do this. All languages, alphabets, and codes
that we know of, as well as the information spoken or written in them,
originated in minds. The blind faith of the atheist that the first
life was an exception to this fact is contrary to all known evidence.”

(Werner Gitt, In the Beginning Was Information, 1997, p. 79)

In my mind, however, apart from the fact that the ID observable in
nature is proof of God, and, say, if one’s brain is not equipped to
handle logic and reason, the best proof of God is that you become
totally happy by adding Krishna to your life.

Someone may object - you also become happy by smoking some dope or
winning the lottery, or having sex, what’s the difference? How is that
proof of God?

The thing about bodily or mental pleasures, though, is that they don’t
make the soul happy. Connecting to Krishna makes the soul happy, and
contrary to sense-gratification, which always ends in misery and
leaves you frustrated, the happiness of the soul is a constant fact.
Not only does the happiness of the soul not end, it only increases
more and more. It’s a deep and lasting bliss that is never interrupted
by suffering.

Sure, you may break a leg, your wife may leave you, your children may
think you’re a complete loser, or you may be depressed due to lack of
money, but the deep satisfaction of Krishna consciousness, once
established, never leaves the heart. And that’s the proof that Krishna
is God.

So, as the saying goes - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Krishna says:

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification. --Srimad
Bhagavatam 11.14.12
Harry Krishna
2021-06-16 12:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
bitch moan whine
The best proof of God, in my mind, is logic, reason and common sense.
As you are devoid of all three, your assertion is dismissed as
nonsense.
Post by Jahnu
Anyone with a brain can understand the world didn’t create itself out
of a bunch of chemicals.
No one has ever claimed any such thing, because CHEMICALS DIDN'T EXIST
BEFORE THE UNIVERSE, you fucking idiot. Seriously, what the hell is
wrong with you, Jesper? You literally have no idea what you're talking
about, as always.
Jahnu
2021-06-17 04:37:14 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
To say that belief in God is no more than superstition is just
foolish. To suggest that humanity, since the beginning of time, has
been devoted to a superstition, is at best a baseless, unintelligent
assertion.

A common saying by atheists is that belief in God is no different than
believing in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. Statements like that
clearly show the damage atheism does to the mind.

The most brilliant thinkers, philosophers, and scientists throughout
history have advocated beleif in God. Do you know of any intelligent
person or scientist who believes in the tooth fairy?

To think that likening Santa Claus to God is a valid comparison simply
exposes you as an unthinking, suggestible person. Another popular
pastime of atheists is to reject God on the basis of the Abrahamic
religions they grew up with.

That’s just another facet of ignorance, widespread in the modern
world. Who wouldn’t reject a God who could do no better than the Bible
or the Koran, or the Talmud, for that matter?

Here is what Krishna has to say about such people:

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among
mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the
atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." (Bg 7.15 )

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