Discussion:
What are some alternatives to religion, if I'm an atheist, I can follow?
(too old to reply)
Jahnu
2019-06-04 03:18:18 UTC
Permalink
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes various dharmas or duties people must
follow, in order to live a good life. Krishna doesn’t require us to
believe in Him, He simply requires us to follow the rules for moral
and ethics, He has outlined.

As an atheist one can follow such rules without necessarily believing
in God. Following God’s arrangements for material nature is an
absolute necessity if one wants to maximize the enjoyment of life and
minimize the suffering.

What we choose to follow in life is ultimately up to us, God gives us
that choice, but whatever we choose to do, we must suffer or enjoy the
consequences. So our activities in life are what defines us, not what
we believe in. So even out of pure self-interest, and regardless of
our beliefs, we should follow the laws of God.

We suffer in the material world because we cause suffering to other
living entities. Existential suffering comes from being ignorant of
one’s real self.

Three types of miseries assault humans - suffering from the body and
mind, like disease, insanity etc. Suffering from other living entities
- murder, rape, sharks, mosquitos etc. And suffering inflicted upon us
by nature - floods, hurricanes, famines etc.

Suffering is an inherent part of human existence. Life in a material
body, without exception, ends in suffering, because everything ends in
disease, old age and death.

Most people don’t even know who they are, and why they are here. They
think, life is meant to enjoy a body - a dead machine -which is the
cause of all their suffering, in the first place. There is some
enjoyment to be had from the body, but mostly what comes from the body
is misery.

The fact is, we are here in the material world to enjoy and suffer
according to our activities. Karma and reincarnation explains
suffering in a rational way - how we are the cause of our own
suffering and enjoyment.

By understanding the law of karma, one can begin to make sense of
one’s suffering, process the suffering, rather than being a victim of
ignorance and lamentation.

The vast majority of people go through their lives lamenting over the
bad that happens to them, and rejoicing over the good. But life gets
so much more simple when we understand the law of karma. It so
simplifies one’s outlook on the world.

Karma is a law of nature. Everything that happens in the universe is
arranged by the Supreme's material energy. The universe lasts for one
breath of Maha-vishnu - 311 trillion years - which means that one
exhalation and inhalation of God lasts 311 trillion solar years.
That's the first thing to discover about God - how great He is.

But that's only a preliminary understanding of God. Higher than
worshiping God in awe and reverence is to relate to Him as friend or
parent or lover. This becomes possible when one begins to understand
the real purpose of existence.

Every material interaction, right down to the movement of each and
every atom and molecule in the universe is arranged by Krishna in His
form as Paramatma, the Supersoul.

What that means is we don’t have to lament over anything, because no
matter what we did or didn't do, it was destined to happen. And
whatever happens is being carried out by material nature.

Krishna says:

The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks
himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by
the three modes of material nature. (Bg 3.27)

--but, but it's all random. What you experience in life is nothing
more than fluctuations of atoms and molecules.

It’s a funny how atheism so proudly proclaims that it’s better to not
know. In atheism, existential ignorance is considered better than
existential clarity. I wonder why anyone would willingly choose such
an ignorant outlook on life. You see, rather than being peaceful and
happy in the knowledge that everything that happens is inevitable
karma, people like to bitch and moan non-stop about all the things
that went wrong.

However, when you know that every atom is controlled by Krishna, you
feel completely secure in surrendering to Him. Why would one not want
to surrender to someone who is in complete control? It's a natural
inclination to surrender to and rely upon someone in control. People
throughout all times have surrendered to some supreme power, either in
the form of nature or some supernatural beings in the universe.

--but, but I don't need nobody to to tell me what to do. No god is
gonna tell me how to live my life.

I actually have a theory about that. I am convinced that modern
Christianity and Islam were invented by atheists to ridicule and scorn
God. By erasing reincarnation from their teachings, they’ve made God
into some old bastard sitting in heaven, and whimsically throwing one
soul down to earth to a life of glory and another soul down to a life
of misery.

--but, but now a days, we know the universe popped out of a point,
just like that, poof, for no reason at all. The only rhyme and reason
about life, I invent myself. I don't need nobody to define my values
for me. I'll figure that out for myself, thank you very much.

Ok, so how do you know what rules to live by in life? Who defines your
values?

-- Uh duh, welcome to the entertainment industry. It's called
Hollywood. Hollywood defines how I live my life.

Really? You mean to say, people other than yourself define your
values?

--no, no I have my own values.

Oh, you mean the values you grew up with in the global Culture that
rules the world at present? How do you know those values are more
correct or unassailable than, say, the values of another culture?

--but, but we try to export our way of freedom to the rest of the
world. It's called globalization. All research shows it's beneficial
for the economy to consume as much as possible. That's why us
Westerners deem it imperial to subject the rest of the world to our
way of life... Why do you think the West is called the free world?

Yes, I get that, but how do you know that Western democracy, based as
it is, on consumption and exploitation of natural resources, is the
best way of life?

--but, but that's obvious. The sales of anti-depressants have shot
through the roof in later years. How is that not good for the economy?
Do you realize how much money the pharmacy industry makes, how much
they contribute to tax and BNP and how many jobs they create all over
the world?

Yes, but how do you measure that a life of consumption is the best way
of life? There is only one way to do that, and I'll tell you how. The
real measure stick of life is happiness, how happy something makes
you…

By measuring the over all happiness and distress obtained from your
activities, it's possible to scientifically determine the best way to
live. And it is a scientific fact that we become more happy and
satisfied living with Krishna in our lives, than living a life without
Krishna. It’s as simple as that.

It's not a matter of faith, it's a demonstrable, scientific fact.

Krishna says:

In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth
generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Vishnu, and
blessed them by saying, “Be thou happy by this yajna [sacrifice]
because its performance will bestow upon you everything desirable for
living happily and achieving liberation. —Bg 3.10

The demigods, being pleased by sacrifices, will also please you, and
thus, by cooperation between men and demigods, prosperity will reign
for all. —Bg 3.11

In charge of the various necessities of life, the demigods, being
satisfied by the performance of yajna [sacrifice], will supply all
necessities to you. But he who enjoys such gifts without offering them
to the demigods in return is certainly a thief. —Bg 3.12

The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because
they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who
prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin. — Bg
3.13

All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from
rains. Rains are produced by performance of yajna [sacrifice], and
yajna is born of prescribed duties. — Bg 3.14

Regulated activities are prescribed in the Vedas, and the Vedas are
directly manifested from the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Consequently the all-pervading Transcendence is eternally situated in
acts of sacrifice. —Bg 3.15

My dear Arjuna, one who does not follow in human life the cycle of
sacrifice thus established by the Vedas certainly leads a life full of
sin. Living only for the satisfaction of the senses, such a person
lives in vain. —Bg 3.16
John Locke
2019-06-04 06:15:29 UTC
Permalink
What are some alternatives to religion, if I'm an atheist, I can follow?
...living in reality with a mind free from the toxic effects of
religion.

___________________________________________________________________

Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?

Friedrich Nietzsche
Jahnu
2019-06-05 03:07:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 23:15:29 -0700, John Locke
Post by John Locke
Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?
Friedrich Nietzsche
I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Lucifer
2019-06-04 06:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes various dharmas or duties people must
follow, in order to live a good life. Krishna doesn’t require us to
believe in Him, He simply requires us to follow the rules for moral
and ethics, He has outlined.
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes war after war.
Post by Jahnu
As an atheist one can follow such rules without necessarily believing
in God. Following God’s arrangements for material nature is an
absolute necessity if one wants to maximize the enjoyment of life and
minimize the suffering.
Maximizing the enjoyment of life and minimizinge the suffering
is evil! That's what you said.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond
all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to
compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive,
many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others
are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands
of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be
so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will
automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural
state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of
electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic
replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are
going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor
any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the
properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no
purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
Jahnu
2019-06-05 02:16:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:33:29 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes war after war.
hahaha :) It's a curious thing, Lucy, you don't even seem to be
embarrassed about being such an ignorant, uneducated, useless piece of
shit. You even flaunt your ignorance with pride.

Of course, in a group of subhumans like yourself, it may seem ok. but
out in the real world you'd not last 5 minutes.

No wonder you are such a frustrated, depressed bitch, living a life of
no more significance than a cock-roach.


"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Geeta. It was the first of
books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which
in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same
questions which exercise us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and
I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad Geeta and
find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the
midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will
derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day." - Mahatma Gandhi
"The marvel of the Bhagavad Geeta is its truly beautiful revelation of
life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion." -
Herman Hesse

"The Bhagavad Geeta is the most systematic statement of spiritual
evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear
and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of
humanity." - Aldous Huxley

"The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been
current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided
by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states 'behold we are not an
earthly but a heavenly plant.' This correlation can be discerned by
what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad Geeta." - Carl Jung

"The Bhagavad Geeta has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind
by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions." - Dr. Albert
Schweitzer

"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal
philosophy of the Bhagavad Geeta, in comparison with which our modern
world and its literature seem puny and trivial." - Henry David
Thoreau

"The reader is nowhere raised into and sustained in a bigger, purer or
rarer region of thought than in the Bhagavad Gita"
- Henry David Thoreau
Lucifer
2019-06-05 03:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:33:29 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes war after war.
hahaha :) It's a curious thing, Lucy, you don't even seem to be
embarrassed about being such an ignorant, uneducated, useless piece of
shit. You even flaunt your ignorance with pride.
Of course, in a group of subhumans like yourself, it may seem ok. but
out in the real world you'd not last 5 minutes.
No wonder you are such a frustrated, depressed bitch, living a life of
no more significance than a cock-roach.
You must hate <insert god of the day> for making humans that way?

Why did <insert god of the day> decide to make us as just another
mammal?

Why did <insert god of the day> create a world where life feeds
off life and only the strongest survive?
Jahnu
2019-06-05 12:49:24 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
"One attains the human form of life after transmigrating through
8,400,000 species by the process of gradual evolution. That human life
is spoiled for those conceited fools who do not take shelter of the
lotus feet of Govinda." --Brahma-vaivarta Purana


"There are 900,000 species of aquatic life; 2,000,000 species of
plants and trees; 1,100,000 species of insects; 1,000,000 species of
bird life; 3,000,000 species of beasts, and 400,000 species of human
life." (Padma Purana)
Lucifer
2019-06-05 14:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
bitch moan whine
"One attains the human form of life after transmigrating through
8,400,000 species by the process of gradual evolution. That human life
is spoiled for those conceited fools who do not take shelter of the
lotus feet of Govinda." --Brahma-vaivarta Purana
Shelter from what?
Post by Jahnu
"There are 900,000 species of aquatic life; 2,000,000 species of
plants and trees; 1,100,000 species of insects; 1,000,000 species of
bird life; 3,000,000 species of beasts, and 400,000 species of human
life." (Padma Purana)
400,000 species of one species.
Jahnu
2019-06-06 03:49:40 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 00:21:01 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
400,000 species of one species.
If you count different demigods, rakshasas, kinnaras, gandharvas and
various other inhabitants of the universe, it makes sense. Also, I
believe, different races of humans are counted as different human
species.

--but, but they didn't teach me that in the Mickey Mouse school, I
went to, wah wah wah...

You see, whatever we know or think we know, is something we have
learned from others, so it is entirely a matter of authority, exactly
as predicted in the Vedic tradition, which state that there are
basically three ways of getting knowledge - pratyaksha, anumana and
shabda - ie. direct sensory perception (empirical knowledge), logical
deduction and from sound, which means that which is learned from
authority.

So we have two options - we can either accept our own mind as
authority, or we can accept somebody else's mind as authority. It's
simply a question of who we choose to get our knowlege from - is our
own mind the authority or is it someone else?

In modern society, we have been trained to think that one's own mind
is the greatest authority. That, together with what we are told by TV
and Hollywood, determines our view of the world.

I accept the Vedic sages as my authority I accept the Vedas as
authority. Others accept what they are conditioned to think by the
culture that produced them. It is as simple as that.

The reason we don't understand that the knowledge of the eternal
disciplic succession is superior to the speculations of modern man, is
because we are too much governed by the mode of ignorance, in which we
become convinced by what our own mind tells us. At least, a person in
the mode of passion will doubt whether he is right or wrong - doubts
are the function of the intelligence. And in the mode of goodness one
understands things as they are, because in the mode of goodness there
is enlightenment.

Real knowledge can only be derived from those who possess it. In the
mode of goodness one understands that. In the mode of passion one will
at least be doubtful of what the mind, or anyone else, tells one, but
in the mode of ignorance, one is totally convinced, but of the wrong
thing, and that makes one commit mistakes.

The first mistake is to accept knowledge from the wrong sources. Real
knowledge comes from the Vedas. It can be tried and testet by anyone.
The description of nature's working according to the three modes of
material nature - goodness, passion, and ignorance - is a science that
can be tried and tested like any other science. Bhagavad Gita is like
a user manual issued by the producer of the machine of nature -
Krishna.

It's like a map that will teach one to read what is really going on in
nature, in the body and in the mind. It can be tested and confirmed
scientifically. But if we are in the mode of ignorance, we won't
listen to it or try to investigate it. We will be completely convinced
by our prejudice and upbringing. Conditions of ignorance always lead
to suffering, without exception. The mode of passion causes you to
experience a mixture of happiness and distress - up and down
constantly - and in the mode of goodness we will be generally
satisfied and content and we will know what is what.

It should be noted, that I'm not expression a faith or belief here,
I'm stating scientific facts that can be tried and tested and verified
by anyone. If one doesn't agree, he should feel free to ignore it.
This message is only directed at a sincere seeker who wants to know
God and the meaning of life. It is only meant for those who have a
desire to learn the truth - the absolute truth which will end all
suffering.

Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other
words, that they are Mine. (Bg. 4.35)

Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when
you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be
able to cross over the ocean of miseries. —Bg 4.36

As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire
of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. —Bg
4.37

In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental
knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And
one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service
enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time. —Bg 4.38

A faithful man who is dedicated to transcendental knowledge and who
subdues his senses is eligible to achieve such knowledge, and having
achieved it he quickly attains the supreme spiritual peace. —Bg 4.39

But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures
do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul
there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. —Bg 4.40
Lucifer
2019-06-06 13:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 00:21:01 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
400,000 species of one species.
If you count different demigods, rakshasas, kinnaras, gandharvas and
various other inhabitants of the universe, it makes sense.
And The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the Invisible Teapot that is
orbiting Mars.
Post by Jahnu
Also, I believe, different races of humans are counted as different
human species.
They taught me that in the Mickey Mouse school, I went to, wah wah wah...
I understand you believe some god created you that way but you must
try to fight your human nature.
Post by Jahnu
I accept the Vedic sages as my authority I accept the Vedas as
authority. Others accept what they are conditioned to think by the
culture that produced them. It is as simple as that.
You know far more than the Vedic savages could ever have known.
You make use of modern medicine. You use the Internet.
You are a hypocrit.
Post by Jahnu
The first mistake is to accept knowledge from the wrong sources. Real
knowledge comes from the Vedas. It can be tried and testet by anyone.
When we testet it we find you stil knead that spell chequer to.
It doesn't matter what some alleged god(s) allegedly said.
What matters is what they do.
No god has ever acted to prevent suffering.
Jahnu
2019-06-07 01:49:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 23:07:33 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
I understand you believe some god created you that way but you must
try to fight your human nature.
Welcome to Anonymous Sense-enjoyers - AS

Sense-gratification is the addiction of the soul. We often talk about
drug addictions. An addiction to heroin, for example, is almost
impossible to conquer. So just like a person is addicted to heroin, so
the soul is addicted to sense-gratification.

In AA people get help overcoming their addiction to alcohol. At the
first meeting you attend, you are supposed to state your name and
recognize that you are an alcoholic. You go - hello, my name is
Michael and I am an alcoholic. Hello Michael, the assembly answers.

Similarly, in AS you go, Hare Krishna, my name is Jiva, and I am a
sense-enjoyer. Hare Krishna Jiva, the assembled devotees greet you.
The addiction the soul has to sense-enjoyment is exactly as severe and
as difficult to overcome, as a person's addiction to heroin. In AA
they teach you, that the only way to overcome your addiction to
alcohol, is to petition a higher power for help. You have to recognize
a higher power outside yourself, and get help from that. And this
metod works. It is a statistical fact. In AS we are so fortunate that
by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada we know Who that higher power is, and
we know how to contact Him.

So by petitioning Krishna by constantly chanting his name loudly in
song or quietly in meditation, He will help us overcome our addiction
to sense-gratification. And it is a scientific fact that can be
investigated and verified by anyone who may so desire. If we refuse to
accept that we are sense-enjoyment-addicts, in fact, if, in stead, we
make it the goal of life, the result will be the disease of repeated
birth and death.

Krishna says:

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never
return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because
they have attained the highest perfection. (Bg. 8.15)
Lucifer
2019-06-07 04:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 23:07:33 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
I understand you believe some god created you that way but you must
try to fight your human nature.
Welcome to Anonymous Sense-enjoyers - AS
Sense-gratification is the addiction of the soul. We often talk about
drug addictions. An addiction to heroin, for example, is almost
impossible to conquer. So just like a person is addicted to heroin, so
the soul is addicted to sense-gratification.
That must be what God wants else he would not have created
us that way.
Post by Jahnu
So by petitioning Krishna by constantly chanting his name loudly in
song or quietly in meditation, He will help us overcome our addiction
to sense-gratification.
We call that a protection racket.
Are you unable to overcome your God given nature?
----------- A t h e i s t ------------
2019-06-07 04:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
the addiction of the soul.
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Christian: a person afraid of a hiding apparently imaginary god.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is _THE_ foundation of Christianity.
Jahnu
2019-06-07 23:22:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:38:27 -0700, ----------- A t h e i s t
Post by ----------- A t h e i s t ------------
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
You really ought to get yourself an education, Dumbo.

--but, but Ah just laik to bitch and moan about evidence, Ah can't
help mahself.

I find one good argument for the existence of God, apart from the
obvious intelligent design observable in nature, is that it requires a
quantum leap of faith to be an atheist, to believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense.

You see, everything in observable reality points to ID, the idea of
intelligent design, and no observation, no evidence, in fact, nothing
at all, suggests that abiogenesis and evolution created anything.
An atheist is obviously not interested in any proof of God.

In fact, the last thing an atheist wants in his life is proof of God.

Obviously, one is not an atheist out of a lack of proof of God. One
becomes an atheist, when one doesn’t want God in his or her life.
Thus, since God fulfills everyone’s desires, He stays far away from
the atheist.

Some people cannot cope with the idea of anyone being superior to
them. The idea of a Supreme Being who requires rules and regulations
to be followed, is distasteful to them.

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible.—Bg 7.25

On the other hand, the moment a person decides that he wants God in
His life, Krishna is there. All one has to do, is ask God to reveal
Himself. Krishna always respond a the sincere desire of a wayward
soul, who calls out for Him.

But as long as a person is not willing to adopt the process by which
God can be known beyond doubt, God will stay far away from such a
person.

Some people have the idea that God somehow requires you to believe in
Him. God, obviously, doesn’t give a hoot what you believe in. God
wants to exchange love with a soul. God’s only interest in you is for
you to love Him. And to love God, you first need to know Him, which i
why God in Bhagavad Gita invites us to know Him.

At the same time Krishna also points out that very few people, even
those who consider themselves to religious, have an interest in
knowing Him.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.
--Bhagavad Gita 7.1–3
Lucifer
2019-06-08 04:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:38:27 -0700, ----------- A t h e i s t
Post by ----------- A t h e i s t ------------
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
You really ought to get yourself an education, Dumbo.
--but, but Ah just laik to bitch and moan about evidence, Ah can't
help mahself.
You should get yourself a spell chequer before you cast any spells.
Post by Jahnu
I find one good argument for the existence of God, apart from the
obvious intelligent design observable in nature, is that it requires a
quantum leap of faith to be an atheist, to believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense.
Would atheists be acceptable if they didn't believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense?
Post by Jahnu
You see, everything in observable reality points to ID, the idea of
intelligent design, and no observation, no evidence, in fact, nothing
at all, suggests that abiogenesis and evolution created anything.
Would atheists be acceptable if they didn't believe abiogenesis and
evolution created anything?
Post by Jahnu
An atheist is obviously not interested in any proof of God.
In fact, the last thing an atheist wants in his life is proof of God.
I have no time for such people. I await the proof that will destroy
atheism. I know you have the proof because claim you do but we
need to see it.
We need to see your proof before you post any magical text.
Jahnu
2019-06-09 01:55:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 08 Jun 2019 14:28:48 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Would atheists be acceptable if they didn't believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense?
Seriously, who gives a shit what atheists believe in or not?

Being an atheist, by definition, means you have taken leave of all
logic, reason and common sense.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton
Lucifer
2019-06-13 07:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Sat, 08 Jun 2019 14:28:48 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Would atheists be acceptable if they didn't believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense?
Seriously, who gives a shit what atheists believe in or not?
You do. Hence my question,
Would atheists be acceptable if they didn't believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense?
Post by Jahnu
Being an atheist, by definition, means you have taken leave of all
logic, reason and common sense.
By defination an atheist does not believe in a god or gods.

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you
have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises
and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion.
Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.

-George Carlin
Jahnu
2019-06-14 01:24:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:39:26 +1000, Lucifer
bitch moan whine
"As long as there are slaughter-houses, there will be battlefields. A
vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarian."

-- Leo Tolstoy
Lucifer
2019-06-14 10:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:39:26 +1000, Lucifer
bitch moan whine
"As long as there are slaughter-houses, there will be battlefields. A
vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarian."
-- Leo Tolstoy
Apply that to your gods.
Jahnu
2019-06-15 00:03:59 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:34:20 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Apply that to your gods.
How about applying it to yourself, Dumbo?

--but, but fried cadaver taste good.


"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival
of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet"
-Albert Einstein
Jahnu
2019-10-19 05:34:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:38:27 -0700, ----------- A t h e i s t
Post by ----------- A t h e i s t ------------
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
You really ought to get yourself an education, Dumbo.

--but, but Ah just laik to bitch and moan about evidence, Ah can't
help mahself.

I find one good argument for the existence of God, apart from the
obvious intelligent design observable in nature, is that it requires a
quantum leap of faith to be an atheist, to believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense.

You see, everything in observable reality points to ID, the idea of
intelligent design, and no observation, no evidence, in fact, nothing
at all, suggests that abiogenesis and evolution created anything.
An atheist is obviously not interested in any proof of God.

In fact, the last thing an atheist wants in his life is proof of God.

Obviously, one is not an atheist out of a lack of proof of God. One
becomes an atheist, when one doesn’t want God in his or her life.
Thus, since God fulfills everyone’s desires, He stays far away from
the atheist.

Some people cannot cope with the idea of anyone being superior to
them. The idea of a Supreme Being who requires rules and regulations
to be followed, is distasteful to them.

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible.—Bg 7.25

On the other hand, the moment a person decides that he wants God in
His life, Krishna is there. All one has to do, is ask God to reveal
Himself. Krishna always respond a the sincere desire of a wayward
soul, who calls out for Him.

But as long as a person is not willing to adopt the process by which
God can be known beyond doubt, God will stay far away from such a
person.

Some people have the idea that God somehow requires you to believe in
Him. God, obviously, doesn’t give a hoot what you believe in. God
wants to exchange love with a soul. God’s only interest in you is for
you to love Him. And to love God, you first need to know Him, which i
why God in Bhagavad Gita invites us to know Him.

At the same time Krishna also points out that very few people, even
those who consider themselves to religious, have an interest in
knowing Him.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.
--Bhagavad Gita 7.1–3
Lucifer
2019-10-19 06:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:38:27 -0700, ----------- A t h e i s t
Post by ----------- A t h e i s t ------------
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
I find one good argument for the existence of God, apart from the
obvious intelligent design observable in nature, is that it requires a
quantum leap of faith to be an atheist, to believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense.
Those things don't exist.
Christopher A. Lee
2019-10-19 11:25:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:30:02 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:38:27 -0700, ----------- A t h e i s t
Post by ----------- A t h e i s t ------------
You pull your imaginary souls/devils/gods/hells out yer ass where
your perpetually hiding [imaginary] god resides.
I find one good argument for the existence of God, apart from the
obvious intelligent design observable in nature, is that it requires a
quantum leap of faith to be an atheist,
A standard theist lie, because it takes no faith, not to believe
something when one has no reason to.

The in-your-face, bigoted liar has had this explained so often that it
is deliberate nastiness on his part.
Post by Lucifer
Post by Jahnu
to believe that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, and all it requires to
A deliberate straw man that he has had repeatedly correected.
Post by Lucifer
Post by Jahnu
believe in a Supreme creator is ordinary logic and common sense.
No. It takes childhood brainwashing.
Post by Lucifer
Those things don't exist.
I have never understood why so many theists lie about us, so
routinely.
Jahnu
2019-10-20 04:03:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:30:02 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Those things don't exist.
And that you know because of....?

--but, but Ah seen it on TV, wah wah

Atheists, by definition, are always irrational. There is nothing
rational about the idea that God or gods don’t exist. As long as there
have been humans, religion has been part of the equation. Nobody can
point to a time in history where humanity was without religion.

To suggest, like atheists do, that humans have spent all of existence
to debate and discuss something that doesn’t exist, is no less than
deeply irrational.

Besides, all logic and reason, as well as all scientific observations,
point to Intelligent Design in nature. To deny the obvious, to deny
direct sensory perception, as you have to do as an atheist, is not
only extremely unintelligent and irrational, it is willful,
self-imposed ignorance.

Obviously, nobody is an atheist due to lack of evidence of God. In
fact, the last thing an atheist wants, is proof of God. The whole
world is proof of an intelligent designer. One becomes an atheist
because one does not want God in his life, not because there is no
proof of God. It’s as simple as that.

I mean, I can understand why someone would be against certain
religions. The theology of the Abrahamic religions, for instance, is
largely sectarian nonsense.

But to deny the obvious intelligent design observable in nature, to
actually suggest the world created itself out of a bunch of chemicals,
that’s just plain dumb.

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." -- Henry David Thoreau

Of course, only God can prove who He is, but there is ample empiric
proof of His existence. The irreducible complexity of living organisms
is the proof of the Intelligent Design of nature. ID is a direct,
observable fact of nature. Thus, ID comprises the empirical proof of
God.

Irreducible complexity is like a car engine, where all the parts of
the engine are interdependent in their functions. The cylinders
function only in combination with the pistons, the pistons function
only in connection with the spark plugs, the spark plugs depend on the
electric system for their function, and son on. All the components of
the engine work only in combination with each-other.

In other words, a car engine is only functional as a complete unit. If
one component fails, the whole engine fails. Hence the term
irreducible complexity.

The idea that abiogenesis and evolution, with no guiding intelligence
behind it, produced all the living species, is basically an affront to
a working intellect.

To say, like atheists do, that the universe created itself out of a
bunch of chemicals, is like saying that a Mercedes Benz created itself
without any creative intelligence behind it.

Professor Werner Gitt, who works in the field of information science
writes:

“There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to
information, neither is there any physical process or material
phenomenon known that can do this. All languages, alphabets, and codes
that we know of, as well as the information spoken or written in them,
originated in minds. The blind faith of the atheist that the first
life was an exception to this fact is contrary to all known evidence.”

(Werner Gitt, In the Beginning Was Information, 1997, p. 79)

In my mind, however, apart from the fact that the ID observable in
nature is proof of God, and, say, if one’s brain is not equipped to
handle logic and reason, the best proof of God is that you become
totally happy by adding Krishna to your life.

Someone may object - you also become happy by smoking some dope, or
winning the lottery, or having sex, what’s the difference? How is that
proof of God?

The thing about bodily or mental pleasures, though, is that they don’t
make the soul happy. Connecting to Krishna makes the soul happy, and
contrary to sense-gratification, which always ends in misery and
leaves you frustrated, the happiness of the soul is a constant fact.
Not only does the happiness of the soul not end, it only increases
more and more. It’s a deep and lasting bliss that is never interrupted
by suffering.

Sure, you may break a leg, your wife may leave you, your kids may
think you’re a complete loser, or you may be depressed due to lack of
money, but the deep satisfaction of Krishna consciousness, once
established, never leaves the heart. And that’s the proof that Krishna
is God.

So, as the saying goes - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

--Bhagavad Gita 7.1–3
Lucifer
2019-10-20 06:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:30:02 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Those things don't exist.
And that you know because of....?
--but, but Ah seen it on TV, wah wah
Do you have a toilet in your house?
Jahnu
2019-10-20 12:29:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 17:34:23 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Do you have a toilet in your house?
Yep. And there is a water-tap right next to it, so I can wash with
water, instead of using toilet paper like a filthy, uncultured,
uncivilized pig.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego --
all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior
energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting
the resources of this material, inferior nature.

All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that
is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain
that I am both the origin and the dissolution.

O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.


--Bhagavad Gita 7.1-7
Melzzzzz
2019-10-20 14:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 17:34:23 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Do you have a toilet in your house?
Yep. And there is a water-tap right next to it, so I can wash with
water, instead of using toilet paper like a filthy, uncultured,
uncivilized pig.
You don't know what is being civillizes. Krishna is far from
civillization... so are your pedophile masters...
--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...
U ničemu ja ne uživam kao u svom statusu INVALIDA -- Zli Zec
Na divljem zapadu i nije bilo tako puno nasilja, upravo zato jer su svi
bili naoruzani. -- Mladen Gogala
Jahnu
2019-10-21 08:17:04 UTC
Permalink
bich moan whine
The only pedophile here, is you. Seriously, the shithole culture that
produces low-class garbage like you, invented pedophile.

Thank God, you'll be dead pretty soon.


Vishnu says:

When one resents the demigods, who represent God, the Vedas, which
give all knowledge, the cows, brahmanas, Vaisnavas and religious
principles, and ultimately Me, the Supreme, he and his civilization
will be vanquished without delay. -- Srimad Bhagavatam 7.4.27
Lucifer
2019-10-21 08:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 17:34:23 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Do you have a toilet in your house?
Yep. And there is a water-tap right next to it, so I can wash with
water, instead of using toilet paper like a filthy, uncultured,
uncivilized pig.
What was Krishna thinking when he made a basic bodily function
so deadly?
Jahnu
2019-10-21 08:28:19 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:01:04 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
What was Krishna thinking when he made a basic bodily function
so deadly?
"Both animals and men share the activities of eating, sleeping, mating
and defending. But the special property of the humans is that they are
able to engage in spiritual life. Therefore without spiritual life,
humans are on the level of animals."-Hitopadesa
Lucifer
2019-10-21 23:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:01:04 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
What was Krishna thinking when he made a basic bodily function
so deadly?
No answer?
Post by Jahnu
"Both animals and men share the activities of eating, sleeping, mating
and defending. But the special property of the humans is that they are
able to engage in spiritual life. Therefore without spiritual life,
humans are on the level of animals."-Hitopadesa
It was Krishna's choice to make humans as just another animal.
Jahnu
2019-10-22 21:56:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:01:26 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
It was Krishna's choice to make humans as just another animal.
"Both animals and men share the activities of eating, sleeping, mating
and defending. But the special property of the humans is that they are
able to engage in spiritual life. Therefore without spiritual life,
humans are on the level of animals."-Hitopadesa
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das




Lucifer
2019-10-23 03:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:01:26 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
It was Krishna's choice to make humans as just another animal.
Why are you not satisfied by Krishna's creation?
Jahnu
2019-10-23 21:40:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:24:05 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Why are you not satisfied by Krishna's creation?
Who says, I'm not?

If one does not accept the Vedic Version of karma and reincarnation,
one is left with the unfortunate problem present in the Church - God
is a whimsical, old bastard, sitting in heaven, throwing people down
to earth to suffer or enjoy different destinies. Some are borrn with a
silver-spoon in their mouth to a life in glory and opulence while
others are born in Syria during an attack of F16s.

Even after 2000 years the Church has not managed to give a credible,
lucid explanation to this probelm. Still there are fanatics who claim
that the Bible constitutes the only true words of God. They declare
that God could not do better than the Bible. That is tantamount to
deride God and give Him a bad name.

But in the Vedic Version the theodisé question poses no problem. The
sages of the Vedic tradition had solved the theodisé problem already
thousands of years before anyone had thought of Christianity.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

Dr. Ian Stevenson has conduced scientific research that strongly
suggests reincarnation is a fact. Besides, karma and reincarnation is
described in the Bible, with the words - As you sow, you shall reap.
Note, how this statement is meaningless without reincarnation. It's
obvious that one reaps from his very birth. One reaps a certain body,
nation, gender, society, destiny etc. When would you have sown what
you reap at birth, unless in a previous life?
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das

http://youtu.be/Fq-n0bbhpaA

http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM
Lucifer
2019-10-23 23:03:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:24:05 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
Why are you not satisfied by Krishna's creation?
Who says, I'm not?
You do, in this very post.
Post by Jahnu
If one does not accept the Vedic Version of karma and reincarnation,
one is left with the unfortunate problem present in the Church - God
is a whimsical, old bastard, sitting in heaven, throwing people down
to earth to suffer or enjoy different destinies. Some are borrn with a
silver-spoon in their mouth to a life in glory and opulence while
others are born in Syria during an attack of F16s.
Even after 2000 years the Church has not managed to give a credible,
lucid explanation to this probelm. Still there are fanatics who claim
that the Bible constitutes the only true words of God. They declare
that God could not do better than the Bible. That is tantamount to
deride God and give Him a bad name.
But in the Vedic Version the theodisé question poses no problem. The
sages of the Vedic tradition had solved the theodisé problem already
thousands of years before anyone had thought of Christianity.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm
Dr. Ian Stevenson has conduced scientific research that strongly
suggests reincarnation is a fact. Besides, karma and reincarnation is
described in the Bible, with the words - As you sow, you shall reap.
Note, how this statement is meaningless without reincarnation. It's
obvious that one reaps from his very birth. One reaps a certain body,
nation, gender, society, destiny etc. When would you have sown what
you reap at birth, unless in a previous life?
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch
https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das
http://youtu.be/Fq-n0bbhpaA
http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM
Jahnu
2019-10-24 21:24:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:03:00 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
You do, in this very post.
You obviously need to learn, how to read, Lucy. I'm amazed they didn't
teach you in village school you went to for retarded kids.

To the question, "Many prominent scientists - including Darwin,
Einstein, and Planck - have considered the concept of God very
seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the
existence of God?"

Christian Anfinsen replied: "I think only an idiot can be an atheist.
We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force
with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole
universe going in the first place." -Christian Anfinsen, winner of
the 1972 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work on ribonuclease.
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das

http://youtu.be/Fq-n0bbhpaA

http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM
Lucifer
2019-10-25 04:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:03:00 +1100, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
You do, in this very post.
You obviously need to learn, how to read, Lucy. I'm amazed they didn't
teach you in village school you went to for retarded kids.
That's not a complaint?

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have
to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and
exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion.
Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.
- George Carlin
Jahnu
2019-10-25 05:16:05 UTC
Permalink
bitch moan whine
When you speak to people in general about God and religion, one
question that keeps coming up is - all religions are the same
nonsense, how do you know the God of your religion is better than any
other religion's God?

But it's a simple question to answer. First you read the Bible. Then
you read the Koran, and then you read Bhagavad Gita. These 3 books are
like the revealed scriptures of the world-religions, so they should
give you a pretty good answer.

When you have finished reading, you ponder the situation and ask
yourself - which of these books touch me the most profoundly, which of
them is closest to what you'd expect to hear from a God?

Can there be any doubt as to the answer?

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Geeta. It was the first of
books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which
in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same
questions which exercise us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jahnu-Das

http://youtu.be/Fq-n0bbhpaA

http://youtu.be/B46rjU_q_cM

Lucifer
2019-06-07 12:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 00:21:01 +1000, Lucifer
Post by Lucifer
400,000 species of one species.
If you count different demigods, rakshasas, kinnaras, gandharvas and
various other inhabitants of the universe, it makes sense.
And The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the Invisible Teapot that is
orbiting Mars.
Post by Jahnu
Also, I believe, different races of humans are counted as different
human species.
They taught me that in the Mickey Mouse school, I went to, wah wah wah...
I understand you believe some god created you that way but you must
try to fight your human nature.
Post by Jahnu
I accept the Vedic sages as my authority I accept the Vedas as
authority. Others accept what they are conditioned to think by the
culture that produced them. It is as simple as that.
You know far more than the Vedic savages could ever have known.
You make use of modern medicine. You use the Internet.
You are a hypocrit.
Post by Jahnu
The first mistake is to accept knowledge from the wrong sources. Real
knowledge comes from the Vedas. It can be tried and testet by anyone.
When we testet it we find you stil knead that spell chequer to.
It doesn't matter what some alleged god(s) allegedly said.
What matters is what they do.
No god has ever acted to prevent suffering.
michellemalkingmail.com
2019-06-04 08:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
In Bhagavad Gita, God describes various dharmas or duties people must
follow, in order to live a good life. Krishna doesn’t require us to
believe in Him, He simply requires us to follow the rules for moral
and ethics, He has outlined.
As an atheist one can follow such rules without necessarily believing
in God. Following God’s arrangements for material nature is an
absolute necessity if one wants to maximize the enjoyment of life and
minimize the suffering.
What we choose to follow in life is ultimately up to us, God gives us
that choice, but whatever we choose to do, we must suffer or enjoy the
consequences. So our activities in life are what defines us, not what
we believe in. So even out of pure self-interest, and regardless of
our beliefs, we should follow the laws of God.
First off, you assume some kind of god exists. Atheists lack such a belief.

Atheists don't 'need' any kind of god belief. We can follow a particular
philosophy. I am a Secular Humanist. Others follow a different one.
Some choose to follow their own moral system without a philosophy.
That is their choice - not mine or yours.

You always seem to assume that atheists follow no kind of moral system.
We choose the moral system we individually want to follow. Pease keep
your assumptions to yourself. It's way past time for you to develop some
good morals of your own.
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