Discussion:
Doctors blast rabbis performing fellatio on babies
(too old to reply)
nyc
2005-10-15 00:28:24 UTC
Permalink
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539

City Risking Babies' Lives With Brit Policy: Health Experts

Renowned authorities, one at Bloomberg-named medical school, blast
mayor’s administration over controversial circumcision practice.

Debra Nussbaum Cohen - Staff Writer

A renowned expert on sexually transmitted disease denounced as
“outrageous” this week the Bloomberg administration’s failure to ban
New York City mohels from suctioning blood with their mouths from a
baby’s penis in the circumcision rite.

“[It] is a major public health hazard,” declared Dr. Jonathan
Zenilman, a professor of epidemiology at the Bloomberg School of
Public Health — the Johns Hopkins University education and research
center named for New York’s philanthropist mayor, its biggest
financial supporter.

Zenilman, who grew up in an Orthodox family in Woodmere, L.I., warned
that allowing the practice known as metzitzah b’peh “is actually
crazy” due to the potentially fatal danger of transmitting herpes to
vulnerable newborns.

A prominent colleague, Dr. John Santelli, chair of the Department of
Population and Family Health at Columbia University’s Mailman School
of Public Health, joined the criticism.

“Those kids are at very high risk of death and encephalitis,” he said,
explaining, “If you cut the skin — as obviously you have to in a
circumcision — it increases risk of transmission to the infant.
Newborns just don’t have great immune systems, so the worst time to
get a case of herpes is in the newborn.”

Metzitzah b’peh, which is practiced routinely by some fervently
Orthodox mohels, has been at the center of a case involving Rabbi
Yitzchok Fischer, a Monsey-based mohel suspected of having infected
three babies with herpes. One of the baby boys died last October.

But the city Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, which began
investigating the suspected link of the infections to Rabbi Fischer,
agreed not to ban the practice after vigorous lobbying by New York’s
fervently Orthodox community, including of Bloomberg. In his
re-election campaign, Bloomberg’s TV commercials tout him as a
champion of public health.

On Sept. 15 the city withdrew the lawsuit it had filed against Rabbi
Fischer and the court order banning him from using the technique, and
turned the case over to an Orthodox rabbinical court, or bet din, in
Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Rabbi Fischer agreed to stop using the
technique pending the bet din’s resolution of the case.

This appears to be the first time the city has turned the adjudication
of a public health issue over to a religious body.

Zenilman and Santelli said the narrow focus on Rabbi Fischer is
misplaced. They said because Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 is a very
common disease — studies cited by the Health Department in its legal
briefs say that 65 percent of Americans have contracted it by age 12 —
the potential impact on public health goes far beyond concern over one
mohel.

“From a public health standpoint, at the least there should have been
a consent decree that this practice would not continue in this
community,” said Zenilman, who also heads the Johns Hopkins Center for
Reproductive Tract Infections and is president of the American STD
(Sexually Transmitted Diseases) Association. “It is within the scope
of a public health authority to ban it, and I find it outrageous that
it hasn’t been.”

Santelli, who is also a pediatrician, stressed, “This is a public
health problem. It’s certainly a dangerous practice from a medical
point of view.”

Indeed, legal documents filed in connection with the case by the
director of the Health Department’s Bureau of Sexually Transmitted
Diseases, state that Herpes Type 1, which generally causes just fever
blisters and cold sores in healthy older children and adults, is fatal
as much as 30 percent of the time in newborns.

Dr. Susan Blank, the bureau’s director, turned down an interview
request from The Jewish Week. Requests for access to the results of
the Health Department’s investigation of Rabbi Fischer have gone
unanswered.

Rabbi David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, an
umbrella body of ultra-traditional Orthodox groups, has said metzitzah
b’peh is probably performed more than 2,000 times a year in New York
City. Many additional instances occur in other areas with substantial
populations of ultra-traditional Jews, such as Rockland County.

The New York Times reported in August that Rabbi Fischer had done some
12,000 circumcisions.

Parts of the Orthodox community and Rabbi Fischer’s attorney frame the
issue as one of religious practice that should be free from government
interference. They question claims that it spreads herpes.

Mohels use antiseptic mouthwash before performing oral suction, they
say, and the known incidence of herpes among infants who have
undergone it is minuscule.

According to the Times, the city’s Health Department recorded cases in
1988 and 1998, though doctors in New York, as in most states, are not
required to report neonatal herpes.

Prominent members of the large Satmar chasidic community, based in
Brooklyn and Rockland County, including Rabbi David Niederman, a
spokesman for the rabbinical court handling the case, have told The
Jewish Week the community will continue the practice. A delegation of
chasidic leaders lobbied Bloomberg on the issue in August. Their bloc
vote is sought after by mayoral candidates.

“We’re going to do a study and make sure that everybody is safe, and
at the same time it is not the government’s business to tell people
how to practice their religion,” Bloomberg said on a radio program one
day later.

Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden told the Times the city did not
intend to ban or regulate the practice, partly because any such an
attempt would be virtually unenforceable. Circumcision generally takes
place in private homes.

Not all ultra-traditional groups mandate the practice, and the Modern
Orthodox-oriented Rabbinical Council of America recommends using a
sterile tube and gloves to avoid direct oral-genital contact.

The criticisms by Zenilman and Santelli come in the wake of a paper in
the medical journal Pediatrics last year that studied eight cases of
baby boys in Israel who developed herpes after their circumcision,
“most probably as a consequence of transmission by the mohel’s
saliva,” it stated.

“Oral metzitzah after ritual circumcision may be hazardous to the
neonate” because it “carries a serious risk for transmission” of the
herpes simplex virus, the paper concluded.

Asked its reaction to the experts’ warning this week, the Health
Department reissued a statement it released last month:

“Our goal was for Rabbi Fischer to discontinue practicing metzitzah
b’peh,” a spokesman said. “He has now agreed to do so. It has always
been our preference for the religious community to regulate itself as
long as the public’s health was protected.”

While cases of herpes transmission from mohel to baby are rare, they
are documented going back as far as an 1811 medical book that detailed
an outbreak in Krakow’s Jewish quarter.

Metzitzah b’peh was abandoned by all but fervently Orthodox mohels in
the 1950s, when diseases including herpes, syphilis and gonorrhea were
shown to be transmitted from mohel to baby.

As with Herpes Type 2 — the kind that results in genital blisters in
adults — there is no cure for Type 1, only treatment for outbreaks.
The virus can be passed from one person to another even when there are
no symptoms, say medical experts.

“It’s often an asymptomatic disease,” Santelli said.

According to Zenilman, “People shed the virus occasionally even
without the presence of lesions,” and any immune system suppression,
including cancer and HIV-AIDS, can prompt shedding. Even taking
inhaled steroids for asthma can prompt someone to unknowingly shed the
Herpes 1 virus.

An actual outbreak of lesions can be prompted by trauma to the mouth,
like having a dental cleaning, by having a fever for any reason, or
being congested, or by exposure to the sun.

“It’s an everyday occurrence,” Zenilman said. “Although an individual
can look absolutely healthy and have no illness, they can be shedding
virus.”

Transmitting the virus, he said, requires genital-genital contact,
oral-genital contact or other direct transmission across mucous
membranes, like contact between a herpes blister on someone’s finger
and someone else’s mouth.

Rabbi Fischer’s attorney, Mark Kurzmann, has said the infection of the
three baby boys — including twins from Brooklyn — which became evident
shortly after Rabbi Fischer circumcised them is “nothing more than a
tragic coincidence.”

The twins were circumcised on Oct. 16, 2004, and admitted to
Maimonides Medical Center eight days later with fever and lesions in
the genital area, according to court documents. Two days after that,
one of the twins died of liver failure as a result of Type 1 Herpes
Simplex Virus.

At about that time, the Health Department became aware of another
baby, on Staten Island, who developed signs of herpes infection a week
and a half after Rabbi Fischer circumcised him using metzitzah b’peh.
That baby was hospitalized for three weeks and recovered after
antiviral treatment.

Kurzmann said he had no comment in response to the statements by
Zenilman and Santelli.

In a September interview, Kurzmann said “it appears more likely than
not that the babies contracted the herpes from someone prior to the
bris, or a person other than Rabbi Fischer after the bris.”

That, said Zenilman, is nearly impossible because of when and where on
the boys the herpes lesions appeared.

If it had passed from mother to baby during birth, he said, it would
have required that the mothers in question had active herpes lesions
in the birth canal. The newborns, in turn, would have had sores all
over their bodies, not just in their genital areas.

Alternatively, Zenilman said, a mother-passed infection would have
caused an encephalitis-like disease, and the baby also would have
shown evidence of the disease in his first week of life, before the
brit.

It is also highly unlikely another nurse in the hospital or caregiver
caused the infection, he said, as that would have required the nurse
to spit on the baby’s penis or have direct mouth-to-genital contact
that could have infected all three babies.
Michael Gray
2005-10-15 01:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
City Risking Babies' Lives With Brit Policy: Health Experts
Renowned authorities, one at Bloomberg-named medical school, blast
mayor’s administration over controversial circumcision practice.
:

I think a lot of Poms are going to be a trifle upset about the
confusion between "Brit" and "Bris".
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-15 02:36:39 UTC
Permalink
I just knew those dirty Brits were up to something!

*smirk*

"Michael Gray" <***@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:28:24 +0000, nyc <***@thebigapple.nyc> wrote:
:
: >http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
: >
: >City Risking Babies' Lives With Brit Policy: Health Experts
: >
: >Renowned authorities, one at Bloomberg-named medical school, blast
: >mayor’s administration over controversial circumcision practice.
::
:
: I think a lot of Poms are going to be a trifle upset about the
: confusion between "Brit" and "Bris".
Barry
2005-10-15 07:55:14 UTC
Permalink
It's not just for the super religious. My cousin had a mohel like that.
I saw it from outside a packed room and I'd never heard of that
technique, and for years I wasn't sure if I saw right. Everyone laughed
when it happened. I suspect more religious jews would know about that
technique and not laugh.

"...doctors in New York, as in most states, are not required to report
neonatal herpes"

That should change.
Twittering One
2005-10-15 08:04:30 UTC
Permalink
A swift return ...
slim
2005-10-16 22:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry
It's not just for the super religious. My cousin had a mohel like that.
I saw it from outside a packed room and I'd never heard of that
technique, and for years I wasn't sure if I saw right. Everyone laughed
when it happened. I suspect more religious jews would know about that
technique and not laugh.
"...doctors in New York, as in most states, are not required to report
neonatal herpes"
That should change.
There should be no COCKSUCKING OF INFANTS.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Freedom Fighter
2005-10-15 20:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Sick, sick, sick!

Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-16 07:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.

Susan
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 18:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
But the treatment would last years to dig out that sickness :)
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.
Good point
Post by f***@verizon.net
Susan
Freedom Fighter
2005-10-17 00:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
"Bigot?" Your intolerance of my opinion is where the bigotry lies!
I snipped the text for the brevity of the response and the ease of reading
it.
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
Ad-hominem attack is the refuge of unintelligent and immature people that
can't refute an opinion with logic or facts, so they resort to childishly
attacking the person that holds the opinion.
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.
Susan
-----------
Cowardly people do not dare to attack the bane of humanity, the ignorant
superstitions known as religion, as there are no more hateful and vindictive
people in the world than the blind adherents to those irrational fables! And
your response to my statements here is the perfect proof of this fact.
Oversensitive, aren't you? I criticize this cruel and perverse practice, and
that automatically makes me a "Jew-hater."

Slicing off the penis tip of a newborn without anesthesia, then sucking the
blood from wounded penis, is the HEIGHT of perverse cruelty, no matter whose
crazy, antiquated beliefs dictate that it be done.
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 10:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Freedom Fighter
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
"Bigot?" Your intolerance of my opinion is where the bigotry lies!
Oh, I love it1
My hatred of his bigtry makes me a bigot!
ROTFLOL!!
Post by Freedom Fighter
I snipped the text for the brevity of the response and the ease of reading
Yeah, right - it just HAPPENED that it also cut out everything
Post by Freedom Fighter
it.
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
Ad-hominem attack is the refuge of unintelligent and immature people that
can't refute an opinion with logic or facts, so they resort to childishly
attacking the person that holds the opinion.
& thank you for admitting it since **YOU**
a) were the pne who called *us* sick
b) had NO facts to bask it up
c) tried calling e a bigot for callling you on your obvious bigotry.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.
Susan
-----------
Cowardly people do not dare to attack the bane of humanity, the ignorant
superstitions known as religion, as there are no more hateful and vindictive
people in the world than the blind adherents to those irrational fables!
You are a coward because you not only hide your actual identity, but you
have only lies to tell about what you like to pretend is the "bane of
humanity".
The fact that you have to tell such incredible lies shows that you obviously
know that you have ONLY your own irrational hatred of religion to go on.
You told lies in the header, you snipped the only "proof" you brought
because you know it doesn't bolster that lie, and when called on your lies,
you throw out grandiose ad hominem (such as "bane of humanity")
to hide all that you have tried to do. The only ignorant, hateful &
vindictive
loser here is yourself, proven by your own actions.
Post by Freedom Fighter
And
your response to my statements here is the perfect proof of this fact.
OInly in your wishful thinking.
You told lies, I pointed out that they are lies; you even snipped the proof
thatthey were lies & you tried ducking that fact - this doesn't resemble
anything you've outlined. Then again, I am a literate, truthful adult -
rather
the opposite of yourself.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Oversensitive, aren't you?
Again that would be you.
Look at the hysteria with which you answered my posts.
Post by Freedom Fighter
I criticize this cruel and perverse practice,
Or, ratherm you lie about it being cruwl & poerverse, & you lie outrageously
in the header....
Post by Freedom Fighter
and
that automatically makes me a "Jew-hater."
Anyone who lies like you specifically about Jews could not escape being
labelled such.
Live with it, or examine your prejudices & rid yourself of them.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Slicing off the penis tip of a newborn without anesthesia,
A lie, of course.
You've never been to a bris, have you?
I would suggest you do some more research, but you have shown yourself to be

resistant to them (such as in the article url you snipped because it didn't
bolster
the lies you wetre trying to tell).

then sucking
Post by Freedom Fighter
the
blood from wounded penis,
Getting the blood out of a wound to keep it from scabbing & scarring?
Just what do you think doctors do during surgery?
They simply use big instruments because the wound - and the amount of blood
-
are greatly magnified.
I know your type - were we to start using surgical instruments to do this,
you would
pretend they were the modern equivalent of medieaval torture devices - and
the only
shred of proof you would have would be thatthe pressure was too great for a
baby's
penis - hence the mouth tube almost universally used.
You are a classic bigot; not even doing what you would want us to do would
satisfy
you.
Post by Freedom Fighter
is the HEIGHT of perverse cruelty,
Hardly.
Tho' I can see why you are desperate to portray it as such.

no matter
Post by Freedom Fighter
whose
crazy, antiquated beliefs
As opposed to irrational hateful beliefs like yous

Susan

dictate that it be done.
slim
2005-10-17 14:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Freedom Fighter
then sucking
Post by Freedom Fighter
the
blood from wounded penis,
Getting the blood out of a wound to keep it from scabbing & scarring?
Just what do you think doctors do during surgery?
DOCTORS NEVER PUT THIER MOUTHS ON OPEN WOUNDS,
MUCH LESS BLEEDING PENISES.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-17 15:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
"Bigot?" Your intolerance of my opinion is where the bigotry lies!
IKYABWAI noted
Post by f***@verizon.net
Oh, I love it1
My hatred of his bigtry makes me a bigot!
ROTFLOL!!
:)
Freedom Fighter
2005-10-17 22:19:04 UTC
Permalink
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
slim
2005-10-17 23:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.

Oy Vay!!!!!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Phil
2005-10-18 00:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!

You hate Jews!


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
slim
2005-10-18 03:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!

THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THIS CRAP.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Phil
2005-10-18 12:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!
That's not the reason.
Post by slim
THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THIS CRAP.
It's difficult to just 'drop' thousands of years of tradition.

Kind of like you can't stop lying.


Phil

======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
slim
2005-10-19 03:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!
That's not the reason.
Yes it is.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Phil
2005-10-19 11:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!
That's not the reason.
Yes it is.
What about all the aid we send them? You've ranted about that for
quite a while.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
slim
2005-10-19 14:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!
That's not the reason.
Yes it is.
What about all the aid we send them? You've ranted about that for
quite a while.
Yes, Israel is the biggest recipient of Welfare in the form of our tax dollars.

We keep them alfloat and they spy on us and have a record number of
UN sanctions against them for human rights violations.

Israel is a religious State with fascist ideology.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-19 16:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by slim
Post by Freedom Fighter
Well Susan, I'm willing to allow open-minded, free-thinking people to read
what I've posted, then witness the hysteria and desperation in your libelous
responses to my opinions, and make up their own minds.
And no matter how much they wail, their own media posted the lurid
details of grown men sucking multilated infants penises.
Oy Vay!!!!!
Alright, Mike! We get it!
You hate Jews!
Noooooooo.....I HATE PEOPLE WHO MULTILATE INNOCENT KIDS!
That's not the reason.
Yes it is.
What about all the aid we send them? You've ranted about that for
quite a while.
Phil
He's a liar and bigot who couches his anti-semitism in the disingenuous
phrase "anti-zionism". He's not an original we, Am Israel (chai!), are
used to his kind can pick them out of a crowd at 1000 feet.

Nomen Nescio
2005-10-17 00:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.
Susan
Poor Susan Cohen ... scared to death she might one day be forced
to stop sucking baby boys' cocks.

What's an old decrepid jewess to do when she can no longer suck cock?

Poor Susan.
slim
2005-10-19 14:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nomen Nescio
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Freedom Fighter
Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
Interesting how this bigot snipped then entire post to which he
was replying - could it have anything to do with the fact that the
article in question doesn't say what Jew-haters pretend it does?
Post by Freedom Fighter
Sick, sick, sick!
& you could get help, too.
Post by Freedom Fighter
Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the very
BANE OF HUMANITY!
Nah, the eternal enemy is irrantional bigotry, as practiced by anonymous
cowards such as "Freedom Fighter". Of course, firemen fight fires - so I
can see where's he's a freedom fighter.
Susan
Poor Susan Cohen ... scared to death she might one day be forced
to stop sucking baby boys' cocks.
What's an old decrepid jewess to do when she can no longer suck cock?
I heard that she takes out her false teeth and gives "Gumjobs"!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-16 09:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Metzitzah b’peh was abandoned by all but fervently Orthodox mohels in
the 1950s, when diseases including herpes, syphilis and gonorrhea were
shown to be transmitted from mohel to baby.

As with Herpes Type 2 - the kind that results in genital blisters in
adults - there is no cure for Type 1, only treatment for outbreaks. The
virus can be passed from one person to another even when there are no
symptoms, say medical experts.



"Freedom Fighter" <***@once.net> wrote in message news:8Kd4f.144855$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
: Here we have the Jewish version of Catholic priest pedophilia.
: Sick, sick, sick!
:
: Organized religion - the eternal enemy of progress and sanity - the
very
: BANE OF HUMANITY!
:
:
slim
2005-10-16 22:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by nyc
Metzitzah b’peh was abandoned by all but fervently Orthodox mohels in
the 1950s, when diseases including herpes, syphilis and gonorrhea were
shown to be transmitted from mohel to baby.
As with Herpes Type 2 - the kind that results in genital blisters in
adults - there is no cure for Type 1, only treatment for outbreaks. The
virus can be passed from one person to another even when there are no
symptoms, say medical experts.
AND YET THE PRACTICE CONTINUES.

How nice you you folks to transmit disease to innocent infants
while sucking thier cocks.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-16 06:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.

Susan
LP
2005-10-16 09:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.


Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
Elroy Willis
2005-10-16 12:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?

Personally, I wonder what percentage of people who call themselves
Jewish actually support the practice. Is it only 5%, perhaps? 60%?
90%?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Barry
2005-10-16 11:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.

Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
Elroy Willis
2005-10-16 12:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.
Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Obviously it's part of at least some sects of Judaism. When did it
start, and what's the Biblical basis for it? If it started as some
actual health-related benefit and there are currently better and safer
ways to achieve that same health-benefit, then the old way or
tradition should be abandoned. If it started as pure ritual with no
actual health benefit, then it should be abandoned as well.
Post by Barry
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
You snipped my question about what % of Jews actually support the
practice. If it's only a tiny minority, then what's the big deal with
doing away with it? The majority is controlled by a few stubborn
ultra-orthodox Jews who claim religious persecution when people tell
them to quit doing it?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 17:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Barry
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.
Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Obviously it's part of at least some sects of Judaism. When did it
start, and what's the Biblical basis for it? If it started as some
actual health-related benefit and there are currently better and safer
ways to achieve that same health-benefit, then the old way or
tradition should be abandoned. If it started as pure ritual with no
actual health benefit, then it should be abandoned as well.
Post by Barry
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
You snipped my question about what % of Jews actually support the
practice. If it's only a tiny minority, then what's the big deal with
doing away with it? The majority is controlled by a few stubborn
ultra-orthodox Jews who claim religious persecution when people tell
them to quit doing it?
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
Wunderkind
2005-10-16 21:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Barry
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.
Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Obviously it's part of at least some sects of Judaism. When did it
start, and what's the Biblical basis for it? If it started as some
actual health-related benefit and there are currently better and safer
ways to achieve that same health-benefit, then the old way or
tradition should be abandoned. If it started as pure ritual with no
actual health benefit, then it should be abandoned as well.
Post by Barry
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
You snipped my question about what % of Jews actually support the
practice. If it's only a tiny minority, then what's the big deal with
doing away with it? The majority is controlled by a few stubborn
ultra-orthodox Jews who claim religious persecution when people tell
them to quit doing it?
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
We goyim are rightly concerned because it's an inhumane practice like
child labor and conscription of children into armed conflict.

WK
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 22:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wunderkind
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Barry
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.
Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Obviously it's part of at least some sects of Judaism. When did it
start, and what's the Biblical basis for it? If it started as some
actual health-related benefit and there are currently better and safer
ways to achieve that same health-benefit, then the old way or
tradition should be abandoned. If it started as pure ritual with no
actual health benefit, then it should be abandoned as well.
Post by Barry
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
You snipped my question about what % of Jews actually support the
practice. If it's only a tiny minority, then what's the big deal with
doing away with it? The majority is controlled by a few stubborn
ultra-orthodox Jews who claim religious persecution when people tell
them to quit doing it?
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of
Jews do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do
non-Jews feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
We goyim are rightly concerned because it's an inhumane practice like
child labor and conscription of children into armed conflict.
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha
HAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAha

I estimated your IQ too high, it's more like 40
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-17 07:06:23 UTC
Permalink
It is not inhuman you fucking idiot.

It is also performed MEDICALLY and sometimes because of NECESSITY!




"Wunderkind" <***@b.com> wrote in message news:nIz4f.4671$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
:
: We goyim are rightly concerned because it's an inhumane practice like
: child labor and conscription of children into armed conflict.
:
: WK
slim
2005-10-17 14:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
It is not inhuman you fucking idiot.
It is also performed MEDICALLY and sometimes because of NECESSITY!
So as its practiced by Mohels, its not medically sound and most of
the times the procedure is UNECESSARY!

Thanks RainMan.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 10:17:38 UTC
Permalink
[snip anti-semitic fascism]
Post by Mimi Cohen
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Because, like Willis, they just don't like us.
Post by Mimi Cohen
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
If this wasn't about Jews, both WIllis & the media would have just ignored
it.

Susan
slim
2005-10-17 12:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
[snip anti-semitic fascism]
Post by Mimi Cohen
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Because, like Willis, they just don't like us.
Post by Mimi Cohen
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
If this wasn't about Jews, both WIllis & the media would have just ignored
it.
But it is.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-17 15:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
[snip anti-semitic fascism]
Post by Mimi Cohen
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Because, like Willis, they just don't like us.
Post by Mimi Cohen
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
If this wasn't about Jews, both WIllis & the media would have just ignored
it.
Susan
a given
Elroy Willis
2005-10-17 15:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
[snip anti-semitic fascism]
If the Christians or Muslims practiced the same thing, I'd speak out
against it as well, Same for any other culture...
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Mimi Cohen
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Because, like Willis, they just don't like us.
I despise superstition and barbaric rituals, it's true. Sue me!
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Mimi Cohen
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
If this wasn't about Jews, both WIllis & the media would have just
ignored it.
I challenge that claim, and say that if it was some other group
besides some semitic tribe, then it would be considered horrible and
worthy of abolishment as well.

BTW, is Mimi your middle name, or some sock puppet name of yours?
You're Susan Cohen in disguise, right?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Ben Kaufman
2005-10-18 12:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
[snip anti-semitic fascism]
Post by Mimi Cohen
Even *IF* (the biggest word in the English language) a majority of Jews
do support the practice, what business is it of yours? Why do non-Jews
feel they have the "right" to question us and our practices?
Because, like Willis, they just don't like us.
Post by Mimi Cohen
Note I didn't say most of us do practice that little tiny part of the
bris, only that if we did what business is it of yours.
If this wasn't about Jews, both WIllis & the media would have just ignored
it.
Susan
I believe that Jews make up a very small percentage of the circumcisions
happening in the United States.

Ben
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 17:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
It's not a semitic thing--it's a religious tolerance thing.
Is it in the bible that it should be done, or is it tradition or what?
Can we define all forms of Judaism as the belief in the old testament
to various extents, or can tradition shape Judaism? Maybe it
technically wouldn't be against Judaism to prohibit that form of
circumcision. It would be against SOME religion though, and those who
practice it would probably say it's a Judaism thing whether it's
biblical or not.
Just out of curiosity, one wonders if you know that your "old testament"
is the polar opposite of Torah and Tannach?
Barry
2005-10-16 18:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Just out of curiosity, one wonders if you know that your "old testament"
is the polar opposite of Torah and Tannach?
Nope.
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 20:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Just out of curiosity, one wonders if you know that your "old testament"
is the polar opposite of Torah and Tannach?
Nope.
Then you really have no way to see if there's anything about this custom
in Torah, is there?
Barry
2005-10-17 02:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Mimi Cohen
Just out of curiosity, one wonders if you know that your "old testament"
is the polar opposite of Torah and Tannach?
Nope.
Then you really have no way to see if there's anything about this custom
in Torah, is there?
If I don't still have my old copy, I'm sure I can search the internet,
but I wasn't going to research it anyway.

Anyway, we've never established that the Torah is the polar opposite of
the Old Testament. You didn't mention the differences or define either
one.
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 10:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
You can bet if there were no Jews involved that Elroy Willis would just be
passing this thing by - same as the media would be.

Susan
slim
2005-10-17 12:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
You can bet if there were no Jews involved that Elroy Willis would just be
passing this thing by - same as the media would be.
Sorry Susie, the truth about this perverted and barbaric practice
is now out for the world to see.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Elroy Willis
2005-10-17 15:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
You can bet if there were no Jews involved that Elroy Willis would just be
passing this thing by - same as the media would be.
Show me some examples of other cultures of people who have priests who
suck and spit on the cocks of newborn babies, and get back to me...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
slim
2005-10-17 23:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was being
performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would be outlawed
in a New York minute, don't you think?
You can bet if there were no Jews involved that Elroy Willis would just be
passing this thing by - same as the media would be.
Show me some examples of other cultures of people who have priests who
suck and spit on the cocks of newborn babies, and get back to me...
Thats suck and spit AFTER they have multilated an innocent child.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Elroy Willis
2005-10-17 23:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Elroy Willis
You can bet that if the same health-endangering ritual was
being performed by some non-semitic circumcisionists, it would
be outlawed in a New York minute, don't you think?
You can bet if there were no Jews involved that Elroy Willis would
just be passing this thing by - same as the media would be.
You'd lose that bet. Doesn't matter which tribe or culture or
religion that practiced it, I'd still speak out against it.
Post by slim
Post by Elroy Willis
Show me some examples of other cultures of people who have
priests who suck and spit on the cocks of newborn babies, and
get back to me...
Thats suck and spit AFTER they have multilated an innocent child.
The priest's spit is like a dog's, you know.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Wunderkind
2005-10-16 13:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
with lots of blood and wailing.

James
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-16 15:37:47 UTC
Permalink
GobShite!


"Wunderkind" <***@b.com> wrote in message news:5Bs4f.2243$***@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: LP wrote:
: > On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:46:50 GMT, ***@verizon.net wrote:
: >
: >
: >>On 14-Oct-2005, nyc <***@thebigapple.nyc> wrote:
: >>
: >>
: >>>http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
: >>
: >>Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
: >>
: >>Susan
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: > When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a
sick-o
: > anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never
seriously
: > considered the alternative, that it might be true.
: >
: >
: > Cut It Off
: > Another disgusting religious practice.
: >
: > http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
: >
: >
: A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
: bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
: with lots of blood and wailing.
:
: James
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 10:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
GobShite!
And he'd be the first to scream if someone made up some FOAF
crap like he's doing.

Susan
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
: >
: >
: >>
: >>
: >>>http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
: >>
: >>Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
: >>
: >>Susan
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: > When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a
sick-o
: > anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never
seriously
: > considered the alternative, that it might be true.
: >
: >
: > Cut It Off
: > Another disgusting religious practice.
: >
: > http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
: >
: >
: A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
: bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
: with lots of blood and wailing.
: James
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 17:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wunderkind
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
with lots of blood and wailing.
James
One wonders if you are aware of the fact that human hands are not always
100% steady, do you have statistics on how many surgeons' hands slip
during surgery?
jayson
2005-10-16 18:07:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Wunderkind
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
with lots of blood and wailing.
James
One wonders if you are aware of the fact that human hands are not always
100% steady, do you have statistics on how many surgeons' hands slip
during surgery?
Why do people who aren't jewish care if a rabbi is sucking on a jewish
baby's cock and giving it herpes? If jews think it's okay to give
their little baby's herpes and if they think it's okay for an adult to
suck on a baby's cock, and if their religion says it's okay, who am I
to say it's wrong?
Wunderkind
2005-10-16 21:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Wunderkind
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's penis
with lots of blood and wailing.
James
One wonders if you are aware of the fact that human hands are not always
100% steady, do you have statistics on how many surgeons' hands slip
during surgery?
One wonders if you can tell me and the newsgroups how much training
rabbis and others have in doing a bris? Do they practice on live or fake
infants at the yeshivas?

WK
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-16 22:53:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wunderkind
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Wunderkind
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Cut It Off
Another disgusting religious practice.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed a
bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's
penis with lots of blood and wailing.
James
One wonders if you are aware of the fact that human hands are not
always 100% steady, do you have statistics on how many surgeons' hands
slip during surgery?
One wonders if you can tell me and the newsgroups how much training
rabbis and others have in doing a bris? Do they practice on live or fake
infants at the yeshivas?
Are you daft? Mohels don't have to be rabbis, you moron, you were
already told that. As it is obvious to the most casual observer that
your brain surgeon left you with an IQ of around 70 I choose not to
attempt to educate you, you are too damaged to benefit by actually
learning anything. Bigotry like yours is born of ignorance and fear.
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-17 07:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Rabbis have no training in circumcision, MOHELS do.

A mohel can become a rabbi.

A rabbi can become a mohel.



"Wunderkind" <***@b.com> wrote in message news:yGz4f.4662$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: Mimi Cohen wrote:
: > Wunderkind wrote:
: >
: >> LP wrote:
: >>
: >>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:46:50 GMT, ***@verizon.net wrote:
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>> On 14-Oct-2005, nyc <***@thebigapple.nyc> wrote:
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>> http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to
peddle.
: >>>>
: >>>> Susan
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a
sick-o
: >>> anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never
seriously
: >>> considered the alternative, that it might be true.
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> Cut It Off
: >>> Another disgusting religious practice.
: >>>
: >>> http://slate.msn.com/id/2125225/
: >>>
: >>>
: >> A friend of mine worked at a Jewish Community Center and witnessed
a
: >> bris that went awry. The knife slipped and cut into the infant's
penis
: >> with lots of blood and wailing.
: >>
: >> James
: >
: >
: > One wonders if you are aware of the fact that human hands are not
always
: > 100% steady, do you have statistics on how many surgeons' hands slip
: > during surgery?
:
: One wonders if you can tell me and the newsgroups how much training
: rabbis and others have in doing a bris? Do they practice on live or
fake
: infants at the yeshivas?
:
: WK
slim
2005-10-17 12:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
When I first heard of this a few years ago, I assumed it was a sick-o
anti-Semite making stuff up to deride Jewish people. I never seriously
considered the alternative, that it might be true.
Its the sick, ugly truth about a barbaric practice that continues today.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Borked Pseudo Mailed
2005-10-17 00:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
Susan
Poor cocksucking jewess Susan Cohen. Living in denial about her crime.

Scared to death the law may force her to stop sucking baby cocks.

She'll just go underground. She can't stop sucking baby cocks.

Poor Susan Cohen.
slim
2005-10-17 12:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-17 15:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
You're disgusting, a vile pedophile, are you registered in your
neighborhood?
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 17:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
Not that he can prove.
There was nothing like that in the article.
Post by Mimi Cohen
You're disgusting, a vile pedophile, are you registered in your
neighborhood?
Funny how all these bigots always turn out to be the very thing they
accuse us of being....

Susan
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-17 19:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
Not that he can prove.
There was nothing like that in the article.
Post by Mimi Cohen
You're disgusting, a vile pedophile, are you registered in your
neighborhood?
Funny how all these bigots always turn out to be the very thing they
accuse us of being....
Susan
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris? That's just so disgusting it makes me want to hurl.
slim
2005-10-17 23:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
Not that he can prove.
There was nothing like that in the article.
Post by Mimi Cohen
You're disgusting, a vile pedophile, are you registered in your
neighborhood?
Funny how all these bigots always turn out to be the very thing they
accuse us of being....
Susan
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris? That's just so disgusting it makes me want to hurl.
"New York City mohels from suctioning blood with their mouths from a
baby’s penis in the circumcision rite. "

That's just so disgusting it makes me want to hurl.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Elroy Willis
2005-10-17 23:19:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Phil
2005-10-18 00:54:51 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 01:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Phil
2005-10-18 01:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 01:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
Phil
2005-10-18 02:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.


Phil

======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 02:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.
Phil
Probably not. Not being Ultra Orthodox, nothing like that happened at my
son's bris. Because that was nearly 30 years ago and I've changed much
since then I really couldn't guess how I would have reacted had a mohel
suggested it. :)
slim
2005-10-18 03:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.
Phil
Probably not. Not being Ultra Orthodox, nothing like that happened at my
son's bris. Because that was nearly 30 years ago and I've changed much
since then I really couldn't guess how I would have reacted had a mohel
suggested it. :)
WHY MUTILATE INNOCENT CHILDREN?

Hey Mimi.....what if your "religion" mandated that
the clitoris of newborn females be cut out?

Would you let that happen to a a daughter of yours?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 04:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.
Phil
Probably not. Not being Ultra Orthodox, nothing like that happened at my
son's bris. Because that was nearly 30 years ago and I've changed much
since then I really couldn't guess how I would have reacted had a mohel
suggested it. :)
WHY MUTILATE INNOCENT CHILDREN?
Hey Mimi.....what if your "religion" mandated that
the clitoris of newborn females be cut out?
Would you let that happen to a a daughter of yours?
What a stupid strawman, your ignorant friends might buy that, but it
doesn't equate, loser.
slim
2005-10-19 03:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.
Phil
Probably not. Not being Ultra Orthodox, nothing like that happened at my
son's bris. Because that was nearly 30 years ago and I've changed much
since then I really couldn't guess how I would have reacted had a mohel
suggested it. :)
WHY MUTILATE INNOCENT CHILDREN?
Hey Mimi.....what if your "religion" mandated that
the clitoris of newborn females be cut out?
Would you let that happen to a a daughter of yours?
What a stupid strawman, your ignorant friends might buy that, but it
doesn't equate, loser.
OK, no "strawman"....WHY MUTILATE INNOCENT CHILDREN?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-18 03:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
And I don't think a few lone incidents is going to change thousands of
years of tradition.
Your family heritage of drunkeness goes THAT far back?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-18 03:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Phil
your reply implied you agreed with him, if I read you wrong I apologize.
I think it's vile and sick that these guys who are bitching about this
automatically went to the sex thing. The infant involved can cry, eat,
piss and shit, but it can not have sex.
JUST LIKE PHIL!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-18 03:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 04:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
Phil
2005-10-18 11:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 15:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
Phil
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Phil
2005-10-18 16:30:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
Phil
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.

Classic closet case.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
2005-10-18 16:36:45 UTC
Permalink
That's why I prefer wardrobes!

*grin*

"Phil" <***@yahoooo.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
:
: Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
: posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.
:
: Classic closet case.
:
:
: Phil
: ======
: visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
: http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 17:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
That's why I prefer wardrobes!
*grin*
: Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
: posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.
: Classic closet case.
: Phil
: ======
: http://www.hbd.org/nychg
An armoire is a very nice piece of furniture also :)
slim
2005-10-19 03:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton
That's why I prefer wardrobes!
*grin*
One can only imagine what a gay Irishman has in his "wardrobe"!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-18 17:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
Phil
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.
Classic closet case.
Phil
Denial is their only "defense". I'm not able to explain homophobes. I've
often wondered why men (some men) are so threatened by gay men but so
few women are threatened by lesbians?
slim
2005-10-19 03:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
Phil
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.
Classic closet case.
Phil
Denial is their only "defense". I'm not able to explain homophobes. I've
often wondered why men (some men) are so threatened by gay men but so
few women are threatened by lesbians?
Mimi, you still defend the old man who put his mouth on the infants
multilated penis? There was nothing wrong with his actions?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-19 03:36:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
Phil
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Mike tends to bring up homoerotic imagery in most of the threads he
posts on. And, at the same time, uses homosexuality as an insult.
Classic closet case.
And what give you the expertease to make that jusgement?

All those circle jerks with KKKen, LEO and Pagan?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Phil
2005-10-19 03:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Ironically, Mimi, that's what everyone said in the delivery room the
day Mike was born.

That's also what every woman said whenever Mike suggested sex.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
Mimi Cohen
2005-10-19 03:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
eeeeewwwwwww yuck!
Ironically, Mimi, that's what everyone said in the delivery room the
day Mike was born.
That's also what every woman said whenever Mike suggested sex.
Phil
and I can understand why :)
slim
2005-10-19 03:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
That's not an opinion for Mike. It's more of a desire.
The adults are having a conversation here Phil, please sit down with the
other children in the next room.
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-19 03:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by Phil
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
Phil
To you two, the penis of an *EIGHT DAY OLD* boy is a sex organ? and you
wonder why I call you perverts.
Don't lump me in with these idiots.
Says the homebrewing, drunken pervert.
*YOU'RE* the pervert here, you're the one who thinks 8 day old boys use
their penises for sex.
Oh, you think that the act of the old man sucking on that penis,
after he multilates it, is perfectly OK? Nothing wrong with that?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-18 03:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:19:04 GMT, Elroy Willis
Post by Elroy Willis
Post by Mimi Cohen
I mean what kind of "mind" automaticaly goes to sex when the subject is
a bris?
What kind of mind doesn't? It's a sex organ, for crying out loud.
It's more than that. Normal guys urinate out of it, too.
And what about perverts like you, hmmmmmmm?????
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-17 23:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
Not that he can prove.
There was nothing like that in the article.
From the article:
"New York City mohels from suctioning blood with
their mouths from a baby’s penis in the circumcision rite. "

Right there sweeheart.

Are your glasses a tad too thick from being born
from first cousins?
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
slim
2005-10-17 23:05:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mimi Cohen
Post by slim
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
Not one thing in here about the lie this bigot is trying to peddle.
There were no "lies being peddled". Just the sickening truth about
grown men sucking infant's multilated penises.
You're disgusting, a vile pedophile, are you registered in your
neighborhood?
No, thats the Mohel down the block.

No wonder he is always lickin' those oversized lips of his!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Parad Oxe
2005-10-16 14:46:52 UTC
Permalink
This shows the hypocrisy of the so-called atheists.

If it were Christians doing this the atheists would be jumping up and
down like howler monkeys slinging shit at them.

Since it's Jews doing it, the atheists turn their heads and pretend to
look the other way.

Here we have institutionalized child abuse of the worst kind by a
religion, where rabbis:

1) Mutilate boy's penises in the name of their "G-d"
2) Have mouth-to-penis contact after mutilating said penis (!!!)
3) Transmit diseases to the baby boy

And nary a word to be heard from the so-called atheists.

This is something the whole country should be up in arms about,
putting these pedophile rabbis behind jail and outlawing such a
barbaric, horrific practice (both the mutilations and the oral sex on
babies).
Post by nyc
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11539
City Risking Babies' Lives With Brit Policy: Health Experts
Renowned authorities, one at Bloomberg-named medical school, blast
mayor’s administration over controversial circumcision practice.
Debra Nussbaum Cohen - Staff Writer
A renowned expert on sexually transmitted disease denounced as
“outrageous” this week the Bloomberg administration’s failure to ban
New York City mohels from suctioning blood with their mouths from a
baby’s penis in the circumcision rite.
“[It] is a major public health hazard,” declared Dr. Jonathan
Zenilman, a professor of epidemiology at the Bloomberg School of
Public Health — the Johns Hopkins University education and research
center named for New York’s philanthropist mayor, its biggest
financial supporter.
Zenilman, who grew up in an Orthodox family in Woodmere, L.I., warned
that allowing the practice known as metzitzah b’peh “is actually
crazy” due to the potentially fatal danger of transmitting herpes to
vulnerable newborns.
A prominent colleague, Dr. John Santelli, chair of the Department of
Population and Family Health at Columbia University’s Mailman School
of Public Health, joined the criticism.
“Those kids are at very high risk of death and encephalitis,” he said,
explaining, “If you cut the skin — as obviously you have to in a
circumcision — it increases risk of transmission to the infant.
Newborns just don’t have great immune systems, so the worst time to
get a case of herpes is in the newborn.”
Metzitzah b’peh, which is practiced routinely by some fervently
Orthodox mohels, has been at the center of a case involving Rabbi
Yitzchok Fischer, a Monsey-based mohel suspected of having infected
three babies with herpes. One of the baby boys died last October.
But the city Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, which began
investigating the suspected link of the infections to Rabbi Fischer,
agreed not to ban the practice after vigorous lobbying by New York’s
fervently Orthodox community, including of Bloomberg. In his
re-election campaign, Bloomberg’s TV commercials tout him as a
champion of public health.
On Sept. 15 the city withdrew the lawsuit it had filed against Rabbi
Fischer and the court order banning him from using the technique, and
turned the case over to an Orthodox rabbinical court, or bet din, in
Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Rabbi Fischer agreed to stop using the
technique pending the bet din’s resolution of the case.
This appears to be the first time the city has turned the adjudication
of a public health issue over to a religious body.
Zenilman and Santelli said the narrow focus on Rabbi Fischer is
misplaced. They said because Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 is a very
common disease — studies cited by the Health Department in its legal
briefs say that 65 percent of Americans have contracted it by age 12 —
the potential impact on public health goes far beyond concern over one
mohel.
“From a public health standpoint, at the least there should have been
a consent decree that this practice would not continue in this
community,” said Zenilman, who also heads the Johns Hopkins Center for
Reproductive Tract Infections and is president of the American STD
(Sexually Transmitted Diseases) Association. “It is within the scope
of a public health authority to ban it, and I find it outrageous that
it hasn’t been.”
Santelli, who is also a pediatrician, stressed, “This is a public
health problem. It’s certainly a dangerous practice from a medical
point of view.”
Indeed, legal documents filed in connection with the case by the
director of the Health Department’s Bureau of Sexually Transmitted
Diseases, state that Herpes Type 1, which generally causes just fever
blisters and cold sores in healthy older children and adults, is fatal
as much as 30 percent of the time in newborns.
Dr. Susan Blank, the bureau’s director, turned down an interview
request from The Jewish Week. Requests for access to the results of
the Health Department’s investigation of Rabbi Fischer have gone
unanswered.
Rabbi David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, an
umbrella body of ultra-traditional Orthodox groups, has said metzitzah
b’peh is probably performed more than 2,000 times a year in New York
City. Many additional instances occur in other areas with substantial
populations of ultra-traditional Jews, such as Rockland County.
The New York Times reported in August that Rabbi Fischer had done some
12,000 circumcisions.
Parts of the Orthodox community and Rabbi Fischer’s attorney frame the
issue as one of religious practice that should be free from government
interference. They question claims that it spreads herpes.
Mohels use antiseptic mouthwash before performing oral suction, they
say, and the known incidence of herpes among infants who have
undergone it is minuscule.
According to the Times, the city’s Health Department recorded cases in
1988 and 1998, though doctors in New York, as in most states, are not
required to report neonatal herpes.
Prominent members of the large Satmar chasidic community, based in
Brooklyn and Rockland County, including Rabbi David Niederman, a
spokesman for the rabbinical court handling the case, have told The
Jewish Week the community will continue the practice. A delegation of
chasidic leaders lobbied Bloomberg on the issue in August. Their bloc
vote is sought after by mayoral candidates.
“We’re going to do a study and make sure that everybody is safe, and
at the same time it is not the government’s business to tell people
how to practice their religion,” Bloomberg said on a radio program one
day later.
Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden told the Times the city did not
intend to ban or regulate the practice, partly because any such an
attempt would be virtually unenforceable. Circumcision generally takes
place in private homes.
Not all ultra-traditional groups mandate the practice, and the Modern
Orthodox-oriented Rabbinical Council of America recommends using a
sterile tube and gloves to avoid direct oral-genital contact.
The criticisms by Zenilman and Santelli come in the wake of a paper in
the medical journal Pediatrics last year that studied eight cases of
baby boys in Israel who developed herpes after their circumcision,
“most probably as a consequence of transmission by the mohel’s
saliva,” it stated.
“Oral metzitzah after ritual circumcision may be hazardous to the
neonate” because it “carries a serious risk for transmission” of the
herpes simplex virus, the paper concluded.
Asked its reaction to the experts’ warning this week, the Health
“Our goal was for Rabbi Fischer to discontinue practicing metzitzah
b’peh,” a spokesman said. “He has now agreed to do so. It has always
been our preference for the religious community to regulate itself as
long as the public’s health was protected.”
While cases of herpes transmission from mohel to baby are rare, they
are documented going back as far as an 1811 medical book that detailed
an outbreak in Krakow’s Jewish quarter.
Metzitzah b’peh was abandoned by all but fervently Orthodox mohels in
the 1950s, when diseases including herpes, syphilis and gonorrhea were
shown to be transmitted from mohel to baby.
As with Herpes Type 2 — the kind that results in genital blisters in
adults — there is no cure for Type 1, only treatment for outbreaks.
The virus can be passed from one person to another even when there are
no symptoms, say medical experts.
“It’s often an asymptomatic disease,” Santelli said.
According to Zenilman, “People shed the virus occasionally even
without the presence of lesions,” and any immune system suppression,
including cancer and HIV-AIDS, can prompt shedding. Even taking
inhaled steroids for asthma can prompt someone to unknowingly shed the
Herpes 1 virus.
An actual outbreak of lesions can be prompted by trauma to the mouth,
like having a dental cleaning, by having a fever for any reason, or
being congested, or by exposure to the sun.
“It’s an everyday occurrence,” Zenilman said. “Although an individual
can look absolutely healthy and have no illness, they can be shedding
virus.”
Transmitting the virus, he said, requires genital-genital contact,
oral-genital contact or other direct transmission across mucous
membranes, like contact between a herpes blister on someone’s finger
and someone else’s mouth.
Rabbi Fischer’s attorney, Mark Kurzmann, has said the infection of the
three baby boys — including twins from Brooklyn — which became evident
shortly after Rabbi Fischer circumcised them is “nothing more than a
tragic coincidence.”
The twins were circumcised on Oct. 16, 2004, and admitted to
Maimonides Medical Center eight days later with fever and lesions in
the genital area, according to court documents. Two days after that,
one of the twins died of liver failure as a result of Type 1 Herpes
Simplex Virus.
At about that time, the Health Department became aware of another
baby, on Staten Island, who developed signs of herpes infection a week
and a half after Rabbi Fischer circumcised him using metzitzah b’peh.
That baby was hospitalized for three weeks and recovered after
antiviral treatment.
Kurzmann said he had no comment in response to the statements by
Zenilman and Santelli.
In a September interview, Kurzmann said “it appears more likely than
not that the babies contracted the herpes from someone prior to the
bris, or a person other than Rabbi Fischer after the bris.”
That, said Zenilman, is nearly impossible because of when and where on
the boys the herpes lesions appeared.
If it had passed from mother to baby during birth, he said, it would
have required that the mothers in question had active herpes lesions
in the birth canal. The newborns, in turn, would have had sores all
over their bodies, not just in their genital areas.
Alternatively, Zenilman said, a mother-passed infection would have
caused an encephalitis-like disease, and the baby also would have
shown evidence of the disease in his first week of life, before the
brit.
It is also highly unlikely another nurse in the hospital or caregiver
caused the infection, he said, as that would have required the nurse
to spit on the baby’s penis or have direct mouth-to-genital contact
that could have infected all three babies.
Christopher A. Lee
2005-10-16 15:17:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:46:52 -0400, Parad Oxe
Post by Parad Oxe
This shows the hypocrisy of the so-called atheists.
This shows the mandacity of so-called Christians.
Post by Parad Oxe
If it were Christians doing this the atheists would be jumping up and
down like howler monkeys slinging shit at them.
Why, liar?

Anybody, not just atheists, is concerned.

A baby died a while back from Herpes after a circumcision a bit back.

Where were you then?
Post by Parad Oxe
Since it's Jews doing it, the atheists turn their heads and pretend to
look the other way.
Says the lying Christian.
Post by Parad Oxe
Here we have institutionalized child abuse of the worst kind by a
1) Mutilate boy's penises in the name of their "G-d"
2) Have mouth-to-penis contact after mutilating said penis (!!!)
3) Transmit diseases to the baby boy
And nary a word to be heard from the so-called atheists.
Liar.

Just do a google groups search.
Post by Parad Oxe
This is something the whole country should be up in arms about,
putting these pedophile rabbis behind jail and outlawing such a
barbaric, horrific practice (both the mutilations and the oral sex on
babies).
It is, lying Christian.
Barry
2005-10-16 19:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parad Oxe
This shows the hypocrisy of the so-called atheists.
If it were Christians doing this the atheists would be jumping up and
down like howler monkeys slinging shit at them.
Since it's Jews doing it, the atheists turn their heads and pretend to
look the other way.
I've never heard that form of argument used with atheists and Jews as
the parameters before. What's the basis for it? Are you saying that
since Jews are more liberal, they tolerate atheists more than
Christians, and atheists will look the other way?
Post by Parad Oxe
Here we have institutionalized child abuse of the worst kind by a
1) Mutilate boy's penises in the name of their "G-d"
2) Have mouth-to-penis contact after mutilating said penis (!!!)
3) Transmit diseases to the baby boy
Number 1 is generally considered good by non-Jews too. You're obviously
being misleading there. Numbers 2 and 3 are the same, unless you're
claiming there's sexual intent, which is a belief that I think is even
more rare than spreading disease is with the oral blood suctioning.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that in a country known for religious
rights, a tradition with such a rare incidence of harm might be
allowed. People who believe in one religion over another probably
believe the others are going to burn in hell for all eternity, which is
probably worse than getting an earthly disease, but civilized society
has made them tolerate and allow other religions.

Has a religious tradition ever been banned in the U.S. that caused harm
as infrequently as this?

--------------------------
Post by Parad Oxe
Just out of curiosity, one wonders if you know that your "old testament"
is the polar opposite of Torah and Tannach?
Nope.

Barry
http://www.polisource.com
f***@verizon.net
2005-10-17 10:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parad Oxe
This shows the hypocrisy of the so-called atheists.
If it were Christians doing this the atheists would be jumping up and
down like howler monkeys slinging shit at them.
Since it's Jews doing it, the atheists turn their heads and pretend to
look the other way.
What a stupid liar you are.
It's because it's Jews, this ONE case is being made into more
than it's not - or did you forget to read your header febore you
sent this message?
I bet not, since you were inent on telling the same exact sort of lies
in your post (snipped). And all we JEWS know WHY.

Susan
slim
2005-10-18 04:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@verizon.net
Post by Parad Oxe
This shows the hypocrisy of the so-called atheists.
If it were Christians doing this the atheists would be jumping up and
down like howler monkeys slinging shit at them.
Since it's Jews doing it, the atheists turn their heads and pretend to
look the other way.
What a stupid liar you are.
It's because it's Jews, this ONE case is being made into more
than it's not - or did you forget to read your header febore you
sent this message?
I bet not, since you were inent on telling the same exact sort of lies
in your post (snipped). And all we JEWS know WHY.
What lies, girlchick?

The Mohel cut the infant's cock and sucked it.

YOUR OWN PEOPLE PUBLISHED THE ACCOUNT.

GAME. SET. MATCH.

OY VEY....I have shpilkes over you!!!! Oy!!!!
--
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraq.html

Donald Rumsfeld: "If you're asking if there's a direct
link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4865948/

On May 01, 2003, President Bush declared that,
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George Bush
Washington Post, 11-19-02
Loading...